TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;03 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;44;27

Kent Suhrbier (KS)

The one thing that then really influenced the design of the building was meeting a kind of very wide floor plate that could accommodate sort of larger laboratory spaces in addition to lots of perimeter office and workspaces. And so this is an asymmetrical core where we pull everything to one side. We then also cut a big connective series of stairs and interlocking spaces through the center of the building that also gave us some ability to have a relationship between the all the tenants within the building so that they can see each other, experience what's going on with each other, but not be in each other's business.

 

00;00;44;29 - 00;03;45;00

DP

This is my guest, Kent Suhrbier. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault, we highlight Kent's project, TCS Hall at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Carnegie Mellon University built TCS Hall, which is a new academic building on Forbes Avenue at the western edge of its campus. The project aimed to allow for future expansion and create connections between the campus and the nearby community.

 

It was designed to accommodate both private and university users, providing flexible spaces for collaboration while respecting the need for privacy. The finished project, an 88,000 square foot LEED gold certified facility, was done in collaboration with Tata Consultancy Services. The building houses the Institute for Software Research, the Master of Science in Computational Finance Program, the Center for Business Engagement and the TCS Think Tank, all of which promote academic research, innovation and professional development.

 

The partnered brickwork drew inspiration from the original Horn Postle campus architecture, reflecting the economic significance of brick as a building material in Pittsburgh. This was combined with terracotta and glass to create a balanced, contemporary aesthetic. Various colors and coursing a brick appear across the elevations, such as running bond, stacked and soldier. The brick walls subtly undulate as they mix with flat, dark window bars that dance across the facade.

 

A cost effective approach was taken to create the rhythmic facade pattern using the logic of binary base code to develop the esthetic modules. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Kent Suhrbier holds a Bachelor of Architecture from Carnegie Mellon University and is a fellow of the AIA. He's also a principal at Bohlin Cywinski Jackson’s Pittsburgh studio.

 

His work for them includes civic facilities, museums, centers for engineering and innovation, corporate headquarters and university laboratories. The core theme of his diverse experience is his commitment to crafting spaces that define new paradigms, as has been the case on projects like the Frick Environmental Center and Carnegie Mellon Universities ANSYS and TCS halls. His approach to design values, evocative spaces that maintain a thoughtful sensitivity to the natural environment and the communities they serve.

 

Kent has spent many years teaching the practice of architecture and is deeply committed to mentoring and nurturing the next generation of designers. He's currently an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University. So welcome, Kent. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about balance, a Bohlin Cywinski Jackson studio.

 

00;03;45;02 - 00;04;30;09

KS

That's a pleasure, Doug. So we're a national practice with studios across the country. Our Pittsburgh studio has been here for little more than 45 years, and it's always been located in the center of downtown Pittsburgh. And similar to kind of all of our groups, works on a blend of typologies in terms of buildings. So we do everything from residential to multifamily.

 

But at the core of a lot of our work is our university buildings and university projects. And we've been fortunate in the Pittsburgh region to have a very long relationship with Carnegie Mellon that goes back to originally the software engineering Institute and then the Intelligent workplace. And then in more recent years, working on the work with ANSYS Hall and now TCS Hall.

 

00;04;30;16 - 00;04;36;22

DP

And this is a big firm. So you guys have studios across the United States. Where are they and what's the overall size of the business?

 

00;04;36;24 - 00;05;04;05

KS

We're not that large. We are about 100 people and we're located in studios in Seattle, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Wilkes-Barre. We started in Pennsylvania. We still have a strong presence in Pennsylvania, but we also, over the years, have created quite a strong studio in Seattle. All the studios develop really about this idea of craft. And so each one kind of has settled in that nature in their place.

 

00;05;04;07 - 00;05;07;11

DP

So you've been an architect for some time over 30 years, right?

 

00;05;07;14 - 00;05;09;06

KS

Yes.

 

00;05;09;08 - 00;05;15;08

DP

Time flies. So tell us a little bit about your experience as an architect. Have you always worked for BCJ?

 

00;05;15;11 - 00;05;29;06

KS

I worked for BCJ early in my career and then went and had my own practice for a number of years while I was teaching and then had an opportunity to come back to BCJ in the Pittsburgh studio about ten years ago. And we've been at it ever since.

 

00;05;29;08 - 00;05;32;09

DP

And have you taught anywhere other than Carnegie Mellon?

 

00;05;32;12 - 00;05;37;18

KS

No. Lots of critiques and reviews, but most of my teaching has been based at CMU.

 

00;05;37;21 - 00;05;43;01

DP

So let's dig in here and talk about the project. So how did your office get the project?

 

00;05;43;03 - 00;06;30;02

KS

We were working currently with the university on ANSYS Hall. The university had gone down a path with a slightly different project. It was not working for the combination of the university and the private partner, and so they had decided to actually stop that project and take a different direction. And that's when we were brought in, which was a fantastic opportunity, but also meant that we were in the position of having to work very quickly because this was a project where once you change direction, everybody wants to hold the schedule, hold the original parameters for the work and the project.

 

And so that put some additional pressures on the work. But at the same time, I think really brought the team together to focus in a way that was actually really advantageous.

 

00;06;30;04 - 00;06;46;26

DP

That's interesting. One of the most important things we do as architects is manage the client's expectations, right? So you get that project and then you've got to say, Well, we're going to move very quickly as quickly as we can, but we're going to end up spending a little bit more time than you might think getting rolling here.

 

00;06;46;29 - 00;07;23;09

KS

Yeah, and there was certainly that in the planning and what I think it meant is some of the things happened in parallel. More things were probably run in parallel than you might do on a traditional project and process, which I think actually then allowed us a little bit of freedom to do some experimentation with the materials. We had a very good construction management partner who was on board at the same time we were, which on a project like this where you're moving quickly and you have a fixed budget is essential because every decision has to be made in the context of design, budget and schedule.

 

00;07;23;11 - 00;07;26;21

DP

So could you give us a little history of the location?

 

00;07;26;24 - 00;09;03;18

KS

Sure. The location of this, it really drove and I think opened this the opportunity for this project to kind of have the character that it does. As you stated, it draws on the traditional Horn Postle tan & buff brick that defines most of Carnegie Mellon's campus and its original. It's a campus that was developed around 1905 that was a design competition, essentially in a traditional Beaux Arts style.

 

And then it's evolved with a whole series of much more contemporary buildings throughout the 100 and some years since then. And this specific building is on a brownfield site. Pittsburgh is defined also by these very deep ravines. We have a very deep topography to the city. And so the site for this project is actually on the other edge of the ravine from the main campus.

 

It's sort of the first building of a new quadrant that is actually at the fringe, kind of between the edge of Carnegie Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh. They share a boundary between each other along this kind of eastern edge of Carnegie Mellon. And so what that meant is we could use the material to tie it to the campus.

 

But in terms of stylistic, but there was also this drive from both the university and from the private partner with TCS keys to make this something very nontraditional. So this was a task of how to use brick in ways that are not historic or traditional in any way. So leverage the material, but not necessarily alter the details.

 

00;09;03;20 - 00;09;06;15

DP

So the client knew this was going to be a contemporary building.

 

00;09;06;22 - 00;09;10;16

KS

They did. I think we were fortunate in that they were insistent.

 

00;09;10;18 - 00;09;19;01

DP

Well, they chose your firm. It makes perfect sense. So what was the scope and programmatic requirements for the project?

 

00;09;19;03 - 00;10;45;10

KS

So in your intro, I think you hit most of the stakeholders and there's even a couple more since then because there were some spaces that weren't even fit out when we were doing the building, but it needed to be a very kind of flexible, open floor play. The one thing that then really influenced the design of the building was meeting a kind of very wide floor plate that could accommodate sort of larger laboratory spaces, research spaces in addition to lots of perimeter office and workspaces. And so we did two things to make that happen. We pulled all the core services for the building kind of to the west of the site instead of locating kind of building core in the middle of the floor, played in a traditional developer building. This is an asymmetrical core where we pull everything to one side and free up the floor plate.

 

We then also cut a big connective series of stairs and interlocking spaces through the center of the building that bring daylight into the center of the building and kind of create a heart between all these various tenants that also gave us some ability to have a relationship between the all the tenants within the building so that they could see each other, experience what's going on with each other, but not be in each other's business.

 

Because this is a building where you have different research groups, lots of intellectual property that needs to be kept safe between both public and academic groups. And so lots of visual transparency with controlled boundaries.

 

00;10;45;13 - 00;10;49;09

DP

So the building plan, so the site, is it rectangular?

 

00;10;49;16 - 00;11;31;13

KS

The site was a much larger quadrant where we master planned for both this building as a sort of phase one that's 88 or 90,000 square foot sort of phase one. And then there's an idea of a connective plaza and paseo that would connect north south through the site. And then there's a Phase two project that was developed kind of through a schematic level that's about 190,000 square feet that's adjacent to it.

 

You know, it needed to be a very efficient plan. So it starts as a rectangle and then it begins to inflect and kind of reflect some of the views on the site in terms of beginning to bend and open to some of the view corridors and solar orientation that's on site.

 

00;11;31;16 - 00;11;40;23

DP

Right? So at least in the lower plan, if I recall the plans correctly, there's almost like a diagonal which is cut into that first floor plan. Is that correct?

 

00;11;40;25 - 00;12;00;14

KS

Correct, yeah. So we started off in with a simple plan. The way we would describe it is we almost want the kind of site forces the views, the kind of the way you move around the site to then begin to push and pull on something that starts very simple, but then can have some more complex geometry to it as it gets pushed and pulled.

 

00;12;00;16 - 00;12;11;09

DP

So that brings us to project restrictions. So what was the zoning like on this site? Were there any restrictions in terms of the height or the shape of the project? Setbacks?

 

00;12;11;12 - 00;13;07;01

KS

Yeah. I mean, I don't know any of us have found that magical site where there aren't those we'll all look forward to when we find it.

 

The site. Had a few issues and that it was a brownfield site. It was a former gas station site. So you can imagine the fun that brings to some of the initial site work. But that also gave us some opportunities to kind of take some parking in underneath the building once we had to kind of over excavate and clear out part of the site.

 

It's right on the side of the ravine. So from a planning standpoint, we could push the building kind of right up to the tree line and right against the side of a very steep hill that did take some really good coordination with the construction manager. And this is a group, Mascaro, who is regional here but does really a fantastic job and was willing to kind of cooperate on figuring out how then to stage essentially all the facade work while hanging off the side of a hill.

 

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;10;09

DP

So how long did building review take with the city?

 

00;13;10;14 - 00;14;12;25

KS

So this one was fairly to finish our zoning question, they're both related. The zoning restrictions on the site are more comprehensive as part of a kind of institutional master plan. This is one of the benefits of working with the university clients is they in some ways create their own zoning within their institutions. So there were some restrictions. The setbacks were predominantly this idea of being adjacent to the hill.

 

It's along a very busy city corridor. Forbes Avenue and this is an area where we wanted to pull out very closely to the street and kind of hold the urban edge. But we also then had to be very careful in how to do that. And you see, like in the plans, that is reflected by undercutting the lower story so that there's more pedestrian flow, more movement kind of at the lower level, and then pulling the upper levels two through four out towards the street and then again stepping back at the top to create an outdoor green roof and terrace That's part of the think tank at the top floor.

 

00;14;12;27 - 00;14;23;04

DP

So let's talk a little bit about what I mentioned in the intro. This idea of using binary code to design the exterior elevations. Am I reading that correctly?

 

00;14;23;06 - 00;15;52;10

KS

Yeah, it was part of it, although my computer science friends would probably tell me that our coding is terrible. But there was an economy to this building that we were also looking to maintain in terms of its budget. And so we were exploring ways where we could create a systematic language of parts for the exterior that could be very expressive but also be very predictable and very manageable in terms of the number of parts.

 

And so by kind of going back to binary and saying let's just focus on two modules and let's really just break this up over the facade and let's look at how that might then create a facade that's very articulated and very rhythmic, partially because on the inside of the building we needed to accommodate both open workspace, but we also needed to accommodate the potentiality for lots of enclosed offices.

 

And what we didn't want is a kind of fixed grid necessarily on this facade. This is a space in an edge that I think everyone early on just really wanted to have something that was a little bit more dynamic that would shift with the light. And that's kind of where some of the detailing came in later. So we started basically just saying let's create a, you know, in a and a be a zero and a one, and then let's look at how we can begin to map those over this facade in a way that you can have a very regular plan on the inside, but an exterior that is perhaps a little more articulate.

 

00;15;52;12 - 00;16;06;20

DP

So you have these modules that you're imagining on the exterior and once you had those parts, you take a look at the plan and the form followed the function of what was going on on the interior in a way.

 

00;16;06;22 - 00;16;10;05

KS

Yeah, those two in our world push and pull on each other.

 

00;16;10;07 - 00;16;14;19

DP

Of course. Absolutely. Ever since Louis Sullivan and before him.

 

00;16;14;19 - 00;16;17;12

KS

Yes.

 

00;16;17;14 - 00;16;37;18

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the parameters for the building materials. So I read that approximately 30% of construction materials were sourced locally. 30% of the building materials contained recycled content, and 75% of construction waste was recycled or repurposed. Is that all correct?

 

00;16;37;20 - 00;17;17;04

KS

That is, you know, even though we were, again, trying to work fast and economically, there was still a mandate to make a building that was healthy and that would achieve a LEED Gold certification. And so we targeted many of these things. And then in some ways with the materials, what we would do is target a combination of what are some of the really significant things, and then can we find local sources for some of the really big pieces of the building.

 

So the terracotta comes from just over the border in Ohio and the brick this building is all brick from the Hanley plant. So 60 miles from here, just northeast of where I'm sitting now.

 

00;17;17;06 - 00;17;45;21

DP

So the brick facades to describe them. So you've got these flat plains of brick masonry on the facades on various elevations, and then you have these almost triangular protrusions which occur across the facade as well. Did you guys do a series of three dimensional drawings in the office? Did you work in BIM software? Did you model this thing in 3D and then show it to the client and then ultimately mock it up in the field? How did that work?

 

00;17;45;23 - 00;19;37;22

KS

Yes, yes, and yes, we do work entirely in them and we use that for what it's really good at. We also build a lot of physical models. And so all these projects we will build a series of physical models of varying scales as well. And so whether it's studying the patterning and the kind of decoding of the facade, we would start there.

 

And then as we develop, it will increase the scale of some of these models. One of the challenges with this building was the area that we had to build was a long, narrow strip that runs north south, which then means we have long east and west facades, which from an environmental strategy is the opposite of what you want.

 

And so we let that then start to influence the fenestration. And that's a little bit where this folded or triangle other elements came from because we began to think, look, we need something vertical that's going to shade the windows, right? They happened just to the south of every window and this kind of code system that we created. And then how do we make them a shape that can catch the light so that as the sun moves around the building all day, it creates shade.

 

But it also then can this be a plane that flashes with this kind of brightness at certain times during the day? And so we started with the idea of the just the form, and that came out of, yes, the digital models, the physical models, kind of getting everyone to buy into that as an idea. And then to be honest, the CM and the owner wanted to do those elements out of precast.

 

They had it in their head that that was the right answer. So, you know, instead of being too bullish about it, we said, well, let's mock up both. So we worked with technical folks on the brick side to get the shape right and get pieces that we can mock up. And then we mocked up some precast and everybody looked at it and said, The precast is terrible, let's do the brick.

 

00;19;37;24 - 00;19;41;00

DP

And did you use steel lintels then for those parts?

 

00;19;41;02 - 00;20;25;00

KS

One of the things that was a great challenge, so the building was continuous. We're leaving angles that everything is sitting on and we kind of stack the deck against the precast because the precast had to hang from additional steel, whereas we were able to get the brick shape to stack just on the regular mantle. So it wasn't meant to be manipulative, but it was meant to be economic, and we were able to come up with a way where we could kind of keep the same material and offset some of the cost that comes from doing a custom.

 

And these are large brick shapes. These are sixteen inches long by about nine inches deep. And so it's one shape, but it's a lot more substantial than a modular brick. But we were able to offset some of that by just how we were holding it up.

 

00;20;25;02 - 00;20;39;05

DP

Yeah, the brick really alters the scale of the building. I mean, I would imagine precast this massive of panels on the facades versus doing these very pretty finely tuned brick masonry panels.

 

00;20;39;07 - 00;20;40;18

KS

I'm glad it ended the way it did.

 

00;20;40;24 - 00;20;46;28

DP

And so I'm curious about software. Just as an aside, you guys are on Revit?

 

00;20;47;04 - 00;20;48;10

KS

We are Revit based, yeah.

 

00;20;48;12 - 00;21;04;19

DP

We were talking before we got rolling that you had been on Mac. Now you’re PC. I don't know much about either. I'm on ArchiCAD and have been on ArchiCAD for 25 years. Where you guys on a different software before you switched over to Revit and therefore a different operating system?

 

00;21;04;22 - 00;21;36;20

KS

We for many years were MicroStation and then we were AutoCAD by fairly early on we drove into Revit for a good portion of our work. Being able to work three dimensionally is just so important. We do use a lot of rhinoceros or rhino where we nest that in our Revit models as well for more complex geometries, things like that.

 

And so actually when we're modeling whole brick facades, often we'll use some of these other solid modeling tools just because they're a little more flexible in terms of their conceptual work.

 

00;21;36;22 - 00;21;40;06

DP

So what was the size of the team that worked on the project?

 

00;21;40;08 - 00;22;07;16

KS

It would vary from a little bit over time. We work in a non departmental way where we pull the team together at the beginning of the project and our intent is that most, if not all of that team stays intact through the construction of the project. So a building of this type, we'd have maybe three or four people kind of fairly dedicated, partially to move very quickly from kickoff to construction was really only about nine months.

 

And so we had to hustle.

 

00;22;07;18 - 00;22;10;19

DP

So yeah, that sounds really squeezed.

 

00;22;10;25 - 00;22;37;07

KS

One of the things that we do plan on is we take a very active role through construction in terms of just staying very engaged in the process. We have a construction manager who's we've already been partnered with for a year. We will make sure that it's a very collaborative process through construction. Well, we do talk about the idea of craft, and craft for us is part design, part how we document but a lot of it is the things that other people are doing, which is putting the whole thing together.

 

00;22;37;09 - 00;22;38;16

DP

Was the project bid?

 

00;22;38;19 - 00;22;43;09

KS

It was a GMP, so they would bid packages of it as part of that.

 

00;22;43;11 - 00;22;45;17

DP

Does the construction manager help with that?

 

00;22;45;19 - 00;22;47;16

KS

They do, they manage that process?

 

00;22;47;19 - 00;22;59;11

DP

I'm completely unfamiliar with that process. I do high in residential and I haven't ever worked with a construction manager, although my peers have for certain. That's just not something I've been exposed to.

 

00;22;59;14 - 00;24;04;07

KS

It depends on the quality of your construction manager, but if you have a good one, you do have some ability then to manage costs kind of all the way through. We would price kind of really almost every 2 to 3 months during design and in some cases make some fairly dramatic shifts in terms of what we were doing, whether it was restacking.

 

You asked about zoning, the building could have been taller and actually started off a story taller and we kind of restocked it and made it more compact specifically to create some economies. And then that had some opportunities for us to because we were able to create the kind of think tank penthouse on the top, which isn't a full floor.

 

And then all of our mechanicals are kind of stitched into that from a massing standpoint. So we could get a lot of both economy, but also just this is a building that you see from across the building. We didn't want to leave all the mechanical equipment and all these things kind of fully exposed up on our roof. So it was a way of really stitching it into the building and making it part of the intentional mass of the building instead of an accidental no offense to our engineers piece on top.

 

00;24;04;10 - 00;24;22;28

DP

Well it's something that happens on most pieces of architecture. I mean, it's just where do the mechanicals go? So did your team learn anything interesting through the design and construction process? Something new for you guys? Something unusual?

 

00;24;23;01 - 00;25;18;05

KS

I'll start with the positive. We didn't do these large, full scale mockups, and especially when you have a design idea that is so systematic, right, where you're saying, Let's do this one thing and let's do it, we'll make two patterns and we're going to repeat it. The ability to kind of mock that up and debug it and get all the kinks worked out of it before you get up on that, hanging off the side of the ravine, was key, that was just an essential piece because as much as you think it through, as much as you model it as much as you are sure you have it worked out, the sequencing and the constructive ability always has one or two surprises for us. And so, you know, I think that was a really great part of the process. In many ways, it's an owner who's willing to say, Yeah, let's buy a mockup and let's have everyone try this before we get up on the building. That was a really essential one, just because we were able to kind of eliminate so many issues that repeat hundreds of times across its facade.

 

00;25;18;06 - 00;25;30;00

DP

So that's great. So, Kent, you've been an architect for a while, as we've established, based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or even architects just getting started?

 

00;25;30;02 - 00;26;26;20

KS

There's maybe two things that I share with our group here that I still try to live by, and one is always stay curious, you know, if you can set out each day to learn something new, no matter how long you've done it, if it's a year or two years, 30 years, that's the best thing you can do. One to keep it engaging and to keep it what you believe in.

 

And then you're constantly improving. One of the things I used to ask of all my students and I still ask of all of our team here is I am good with everybody setting out to make every mistake once and as few as you can twice, because then you're actually learning. If you're trying and you're kind of stretching, you're going to make some mistakes and that's okay.

 

And that's it's a tricky profession to say that in. I get that right. But it's also, you know, when you have a studio environment, you have peers and you have all these checks and balances. So there's ways to do that. And we still practice that way where we set out to make mistakes, but we're out to learn.

 

00;26;26;23 - 00;26;36;08

DP

Yeah, I love that. I mean, hey, you can make mistakes. Everybody makes him make that mistake one time. Learn from it and don't do it again and do your best not to do it again, right?

 

00;26;36;08 - 00;26;41;19

KS

Yeah. Then we're going to have to talk.

 

00;26;41;21 - 00;26;51;15

DP

Well, Kent, it's been great to speak with you today. Thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Bohlin Cywinski Jackson and yourself.

 

00;26;51;15 - 00;27;08;25

KS

Probably the best place to start is just at our website with most of our socials and everything else link through there. And we've got some blogs there and all kinds of current things that are going on with the firm where we're hiring some of our new work looks like and that's just. www.BohlinCywinskiJackson.com

 

00;27;08;27 - 00;27;11;20

DP

Well, thank you very much, Kent. It's been really nice meeting you.

 

00;27;11;25 - 00;27;16;19

KS

Likewise. So thank you

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;14

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;17 - 00;00;30;22

Jeremy Iannucci (JI)

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;00;30;25 - 00;03;22;21

DP

This is my guest, Jeremy Iannucci. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault, we highlight Marvel’s Project 1 Java in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. 1 Java is a mixed use residential series of buildings located in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The project responds to the New York City housing market and owners' needs addressing sustainability, constructability, risk mitigation, tax incentives and marketability.

 

The Development Investment Strategy required a net zero ready design and maximization of floor area. The project includes the largest geothermal array in New York State. The building will participate in the 421A affordable New York and inclusionary housing program, which provides up to 261 affordable housing units out of a total of 871. The new architecture consists of two towers, of prefabricated concrete sheet panels and three lower buildings varying from 6 to 10 storeys with brick masonry facades.

 

All five buildings rise from Greenpoint in a U-shape plan to maximize light views and open space. Terraces on the east and west. Facades of the towers modulate the elevation while creating private terraces for units and amenity spaces. Retail, food and beverage and live workspaces are consolidated along West and India streets. Townhomes share setback stoops, and a small secondary convenience lobby for the low rise along Java Street.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Jeremy Iannucci is a registered architect at Marvel in New York City. He has a Bachelor of Architecture from City College's Spitzer School of Architecture. His portfolio encompasses a number of challenging endeavors at Marvel, including a mixed use project located in Brooklyn's Waterfront, which we will discuss today. Jeremy enjoys taking part in international design competitions, one of which was recently shortlisted in a competition to design a children's hospice center, and another was awarded an honorary mention in which he designed a house relying exclusively on daylighting for organizing spaces and form making.

 

Jeremy also serves as a design critic at the City College of New York and Pratt Institute. So welcome, Jeremy. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Marvel in New York City. So where in the city are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what type of work do you guys do?

 

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;52;02

JI

Thank you so much for having me on. We are a New York firm. We also have offices in Puerto Rico, Richmond, Virginia, more recently, Barcelona. We're currently located in New York, in Tribeca, and around 200 people at this point. As far as projects that we take on, we like to say design everywhere for everyone. We don't try to limit ourselves to typology.

 

We take whatever comes at us. We measure everything against the values of the firm and we really just enjoy design.

 

00;03;52;05 - 00;03;58;21

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been working as an architect and what's your role in the office?

 

00;03;58;23 - 00;04;08;27

JI

So in the office I really work through all stages of the project, through design, working on developing proposals, project delivery and currently in construction to administration.

 

00;04;08;29 - 00;04;13;06

DP

So this is a really beautiful project and it's extraordinarily large.

 

00;04;13;12 - 00;04;14;13

JI

Yes, it is.

 

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;17;06

DP

So how did your office get the project?

 

00;04;17;08 - 00;04;33;02

JI

So we were invited to participate in the RFP back in fall of 2020. So there was a few other notable firms in the competition. We were lucky enough to be awarded the project, and we've been working hand in hand with Lendlease in bringing it to fruition ever since.

 

00;04;33;05 - 00;04;37;27

DP

Did you know the clients before you entered the competition?

 

00;04;37;29 - 00;04;47;23

JI

We had some previous relations with the clients as a contractor, but they've recently started opening a development wing in the United States. This is our first project, working with them in that capacity.

 

00;04;47;27 - 00;04;53;19

DP

So this site is really large. Could you give us a little history of the location?

 

00;04;53;21 - 00;05;23;07

JI

The site is 200 feet in the north south and then between West Street and the East River. Around 600 feet with 40 feet reserved for a waterfront esplanade. We actually pulled back even a little bit further from that. And it's located right on the waterfront in Greenpoint. There was recently a rezoning that allowed for a whole redesign of the waterfront, and our project is one of the earlier projects in that redevelopment.

 

00;05;23;09 - 00;05;29;05

DP

So could you give us an idea of what the scope of the project is and the programmatic requirements?

 

00;05;29;07 - 00;05;49;14

JI

So it's a residential project, around 834 units, encompassing a total of around 800,000 square feet. This also comes with a series of amenity spaces, a series of retail spaces, as well as that waterfront park, and also a collection of rooftop amenities and green space.

 

00;05;49;17 - 00;05;56;11

DP

So let's talk about the building design stylistically. Were you guys borrowing from anything locally?

 

00;05;56;14 - 00;06;21;16

JI

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;06;21;18 - 00;06;26;20

DP

So what was on the site before you guys ended up building the new architecture?

 

00;06;26;23 - 00;06;51;02

JI

Previously, there was a two story warehouse on the site and it really was kind of a beautiful space in its own right before we got the chance to tour around, before it was demolished. And I think walking around really inspired us just with these qualities of light and materials and things that were really native to the waterfront before all of this redevelopment.

 

00;06;51;05 - 00;07;00;18

DP

And the project, as I said, very large. Could you tell me a little bit about the zoning requirements and any challenges you guys had in terms of planning?

 

00;07;00;21 - 00;08;03;15

JI

So the project is as of right, it follows the zoning guidelines, the lot itself is actually split up into two different zones. So towards the inland it's mostly low rise. We had a height cap of 65 feet with portions that were allowable to go up to 100. And then towards the waterfront, the zoning actually got a little more complicated where there were a few different conditions that you could meet.

 

It opened up these different paths for how the building could be formed. One path was a one tower scheme, which would bring you up to 360 feet. And then the other was actually a two tower scheme where if one tower made it to 200 feet, the other would be allowed up to 400 feet. We took advantage of that in order to move more of the mass to the waterfront.

 

It helped gradually declined the building back into the fabric of the community and it provided more waterfront views overall, just a better experience and connection of the building, both to the water and to the community.

 

00;08;03;17 - 00;08;06;02

DP

So were there any floodplain restrictions?

 

00;08;06;05 - 00;08;49;21

JI

Yes. The floodplain has actually set one foot above the highest point of the site, which is the most inland. And then the site gradually slopes down another 6 to 7 feet towards the water. So much of the initial design strategy of the project was finding ways to transition from the ground to above that floodplain elevation. And we accomplished this a number of ways.

 

We actually set the building back the distance from the lot line as we get closer to the water, and this allows us to use landscaping as a way to gradually transition back up to that flood elevation, as well as moving all of our program spaces above and then moving more utilitarian spaces such as bike rooms down below the flood elevation.

 

00;08;49;24 - 00;09;12;26

DP

So I'm thinking about our listeners, how to describe the site because we have a series of buildings here. Is there a simple way for you to explain the building plans on the site? So first we describe the shape of the site and plan, and then if you could give us an idea about how those buildings are organized on the site.

 

00;09;12;29 - 00;09;40;18

JI

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block and on three sides, on the north, the east and the south, we have streets and then the west side is the waterfront. It's the East River. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape, where they start up in the northwest corner, move around down West Street and then below, creating a view that opens up towards the water.

 

00;09;40;20 - 00;09;43;19

DP

So it's really all about the views, which it should be.

 

00;09;43;21 - 00;09;58;19

JI

Yes, it's something that it needs to be on the waterfront as well as it is about the views back into the neighborhood. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;09;58;22 - 00;10;08;12

DP

So tell us a little bit about the material choices. You've got a series of different materials and colors there. What were the decisions behind that?

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;11;00;05

JI

The building massing itself is broken up into five unique buildings and out of those we have two towers that are precast, and those are the buildings on the waterfront and then inland. There are three different buildings that range from ten stories to six stories. And those three buildings are brick. And that we really wanted to draw back from a lot of our inspirations in the Greenpoint community.

 

There's no shortage of brick precedents there. There's beautiful buildings such as the Astral, which is this Queen Ann red brick Terracotta building. There's St Anthony's Church, which is red brick and limestone trim. It's really beautiful, striking building. We looked towards kind of the history of the waterfront, those manufacturing, industrial buildings, and used that precedent to define these brick colors, these three different brick buildings.

 

00;11;00;08 - 00;11;28;28

DP

So interestingly, the facades. So we've got the shorter, or we've got the less tall architecture, which are brick buildings, and the facades are a series of what I'll call punctures with spandrel, it looks like spandrel brick in between each one of these vertically in between each one of the window openings, correct? Yes. So how many studies did you guys end up doing to decide what these facades looked like?

 

00;11;29;00 - 00;12;07;13

JI

Everything kind of melded together at some point. It's hard to break it down into a number because it was just this completely iterative process where we'd look at something, we'd make a model, we draw it, we'd look at it again, we'd make another model, we draw it. And this evolved from the concept schematic designs all the way through to the construction document development.

 

This idea of the different brick details that actually came from wanting to streamline the project. So we used the same details on each of the brick buildings, but we remixed them in each one. We use them in a different order to create a different identity for each of these.

 

00;12;07;20 - 00;12;25;01

DP

I think what's really interesting about these facades too, so you separate the facade these into squares or rectangles, and then they have this very, well, it looks subtle in elevation from far away, but it's actually a very large construction joint in between each one of these square rectangular panels, correct?

 

00;12;25;03 - 00;12;40;03

JI

Yes. We use that construction joint and we overemphasize it. We use this double soldier coursing reveal as a way to further break up the massing and kind of imply this subdivisions within the buildings.

 

00;12;40;06 - 00;12;43;17

DP

And how deep is that? Is that one brick thickness?

 

00;12;43;22 - 00;12;44;20

JI

It's two inches.

 

00;12;44;20 - 00;12;55;11

DP

Two inches. It's nice because when you look at the facade, I mean, it looks quite homogenous. But if you look at it a little bit more deeply, it's separated in these squares and rectangles. Very pretty.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;14;27

JI

Yeah, that's the effect that we really want to go for in terms of how this fits into the fabric of Greenpoint. We like the idea of there being this large scale massing that breaks down and continues to break down the closer you get and it relates to more your scale relative to the way that you're viewing it.

 

00;13;15;00 - 00;13;22;07

DP

It really does scale the architecture nicely. So how about the building review with the city? Was that time consuming?

 

00;13;22;09 - 00;13;34;17

JI

Not at all. As I said, we were as of right building. So working through the construction documents, we were also working through permitting at the same time. It was a very easy flow from one stage to the next.

 

00;13;34;19 - 00;13;37;18

DP

Now, did you guys work in 2D and in 3D?

 

00;13;37;26 - 00;13;46;28

JI

Yes. 2D, 3D, physical models, sketches. Things were being passed around the office for a year and a half related to this.

 

00;13;47;01 - 00;13;51;00

DP

Do you work in Revit or AutoCAD or ArchiCAD?

 

00;13;51;02 - 00;13;58;26

JI

We're primarily a Revit office. We use Revit for our project delivery. We also do a bit of work in AutoCAD and in Rhino.

 

00;13;59;02 - 00;14;03;24

DP

So when you did presentation with the clients, did you show them three dimensional images and models?

 

00;14;04;01 - 00;14;31;01

JI

Yes, there is a lot of modeling. We actually very early on in the project, we built this eight foot long model of the Greenpoint waterfront, and we were working through just several dozens of iterations of the massing, the two towers, a one tower option, and we were all just spread out around the table, around this model, flipping through the different massings and trying to figure out what worked best with what else we were seeing on the waterfront.

 

00;14;31;04 - 00;14;33;00

DP

I bet the client really enjoyed that.

 

00;14;33;00 - 00;14;36;26

JI

It was a blast. Every office meeting was always a mini party.

 

00;14;36;28 - 00;14;57;08

DP

Yeah, clients love models. I mean, they love 3D images. I'm sure when you showed them these three dimensional images, particularly the towers, which are really quite beautiful, the way the facades step back and move forward. And they're just, the architecture is very interesting. So I'm sure they really enjoyed it, especially when they saw the first renderings.

 

00;14;57;10 - 00;15;12;11

JI

Yeah, again, it was a lot of fun and all these models were tactile and interactive, so it gave us a chance to move some of these blocks and figure out the correct portion, the correct distance that we'd want things to overhang to shift and slide past each other.

 

00;15;12;14 - 00;15;17;06

DP

So how many people worked on the project? How many people were involved in the office on the team?

 

00;15;17;11 - 00;15;44;07

JI

It fluctuated throughout phase. I think at the height of it we had around 12 people total, and that's assembling the full construction package, Through concept the team was a bit smaller, we maybe 4 to 6 and this is also spread out between a few of the different locations of our offices. So we had a team in our San Juan, Puerto Rico office and a team at our New York office, both working hand in hand on this.

 

00;15;44;09 - 00;16;06;15

DP

You know, as an aside, what's really pretty, the red brick that you guys use there, there are a lot of lighter bricks in that facade. And so it makes it look almost pink in color. But you get up close to it and you can see a lot of variations in these colors, in the red colored brick, a lot of like I'll call it value, but it's light and dark red brick.

 

00;16;06;18 - 00;17;10;16

JI

For that facade we're using a blended brick and we wanted that to echo some of the red brick buildings that you already see on West Street on the waterfront. That was kind of our launching point for coming up with this brick palette. We knew that there was going to be a red brick building. We knew that it was going to be relative to those warehouses and then the other two bricks were kind of an offshoot, based on how we wanted to frame this story of the building as you move around the site.

 

So to the north, there's a lighter brick. It's something that we see as a little more modern. We try to keep the tones of the brick and mortar and the sills and other materials a little more homogenous and then on the flip side of that, on the southern street of the building Java Street, we wanted to use something with a bit more variation.

 

We wanted a higher contrast between the grout and the brick, a higher variability within the bricks. And that's something that we saw as a little more nostalgic to some of those worker housings and the smaller buildings that you begin to see as you move more inland.

 

00;17;10;18 - 00;17;16;27

DP

Now the colors work very nicely together. So where are you guys in the construction phase on this? Forgive me for not knowing.

 

00;17;16;29 - 00;17;33;05

JI

Where currently pouring the concrete structure. We're up to the sixth floor now, I believe. We have gotten all of the brick pallets finalized. We've gotten all the precast facades cast. It's really kind of a game of assembly at this point.

 

00;17;33;07 - 00;17;41;28

DP

So, Jeremy, you're a young architect. I'm sure you're learning a lot. As you go along here, anything memorable so far?

 

00;17;42;01 - 00;18;01;06

JI

It's so hard to pick one thing. This entire project has just been an incredible learning experience. Admittedly, early in my career, there's so many different conditions, so much to consider with a project of this size that I really feel like I got a good breadth of exposure to so many facets of the industry now.

 

00;18;01;06 - 00;18;03;18

DP

Do you get to be out in the field a lot?

 

00;18;03;21 - 00;18;27;22

JI

Yes. Every week we have our owner and constructor meetings. We have bank walks on the side and really get to see the progress and it's moving so quickly, month by month. And also I live not too far from the site, so every week I try to make it out there and just see what's going on, see what's changed, and it's kind of humbling just seeing something come to life.

 

00;18;27;25 - 00;18;46;27

DP

I would imagine something this large, I've never worked on a project that's larger than a residential home. I mean, I've worked on schools early on, but working on a job that's this big has got to be humbling and profound and extraordinarily interesting all at the same time.

 

00;18;46;29 - 00;19;07;27

JI

Yeah, it's been challenging, but I think throughout all of it I've been extremely lucky just having in the support of a firm like Marvel as well as just an incredibly talented team of consultants, of engineers and clients who have really just been supportive and on board and actively participating in every step of the design.

 

00;19;08;00 - 00;19;12;29

DP

So I'd like to ask most of our guests, did you guys have any challenges finding a mason?

 

00;19;13;02 - 00;19;27;21

JI

No, actually, the mason that we've gone with bundling, we've worked on a few of our projects with them before, and the second that they came on board with the project, our confidence kind of skyrocketed. Just because we've had such a good experience with them previously.

 

00;19;27;23 - 00;19;37;24

DP

For all those young architects out there looking for work at a firm that they admire, how might you recommend young people find the right job?

 

00;19;37;26 - 00;20;22;06

JI

Well, the right job is kind of a hard thing to qualify. I think the best advice I could give on that is to just put your name out there wherever you can. Don't be shy in asking people for connections and asking people to kind of put you in a position that you think would be beneficial to you. With Marvel, actually, I had a friend from school who knew someone, and through them I was able to get my resume and I actually don't think Marvel was actively hiring. But I got the interview and it went very well. I loved everyone on the team and they loved me and I think I really landed in my right place. But I encourage everyone to really put yourself out to as many places as you can so you can see what fits for you and what works for you.

 

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;41;12

DP

I always kind of wonder is an older guy working in this field now to social media have a benefit in terms of finding work today? That is, is it easier to reach out to people that you simply don't know with your resume and thoughts about, hey, I'd love to work with your firm?

 

00;20;41;15 - 00;21;14;24

JI

Yeah, I think it plays a big part. It's playing an increasing part to Instagram as a way that I see a lot of firms work, a lot of firms putting out calls for applications for either positions or internships. It really increases the amount of exposure and it puts everything in one place where people might just passively see it.

 

And then there's also LinkedIn, where I get so many people messaging me about my experience at Marvel and kind of things that they're looking for, things that they would want to know about if they were to apply for a position or an internship.

 

00;21;14;27 - 00;22;17;12

DP

It's interesting, just as an aside, I never really thought about this, but when you said it puts things in one place, the web really does help them. It sounds really dumb, but to a guy like me who's 55 years old when I was young, you either have to see an architect work in a magazine, you visit their office and you get to see all the photos of all of their work.

 

But the web really does an amazing job of putting absolutely everything in one location, right? So you go, especially an app like Instagram, where you simply open it up, go to a page and you can see all 400 projects or 30 projects or whatever it is, and contact people at the firm in 2 minutes. It really has changed the paradigm for employment or simply for marketing and all these other things.

 

I know it all sounds very obvious, but as I sit here with a young architect, it makes me think that your world is simply very different than what mine used to be.

 

00;22;17;19 - 00;22;30;19

JI

I also think it's democratized in a way. It's given smaller firms a greater opportunity and platform to put their work out that it could be on the same level with the kind of content that you see from much larger firms.

 

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;40;06

DP

I love that. That makes a lot of sense. So, Jeremy, it's been great to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Marvel and yourself?

 

00;22;40;06 - 00;22;50;03

JI

Yeah, thank you, Doug. You can visit our website, MarvelDesign.com or also please follow us on Instagram at @Marvel_is_design.

 

00;22;50;05 - 00;22;55;28

DP

All right well, Jeremy, thank you very much again for being here. It's been great to have you as a guest.

 

00;22;55;29 - 00;22;59;28

JI

Yeah. Thank you so much, Doug.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;27;11

Tom Loftus (TL)

So we really had to be mindful of availability of product and the budget. So this is what started driving us to start playing with different bonding patterns. If we stack the brick one way versus another way, if we do a running bond versus a stack bond versus a Flemish bond, how can we play around with our stacking patterns and try to make something unique?

 

00;00;27;13 - 00;02;46;23

DP

This is my guest, Tom Loftus. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault, we highlight Tom's 389 Weirfield Project in Brooklyn, New York. 389 Weirfield in Brooklyn is a 12 story 50,000 square foot rental project consisting of 66 residential units, a common roof deck, library and cafe. The building was constructed along with a second at 378 Weirfield just across the street.

 

The building features a very unique singular masonry facade we'll discuss today. The sole decorative facade is done in undulating rail like bricks, which is in a creative vertical design. The bricks are dark and called Ebonite Smooth. They protrude in patterns at equally spaced cadence as the facade climbs. The windows are set apart from the vertical masonry bands with frames of varying height, which capture the windows between the horizontal spans. The singular brick facade was a unique way of setting apart a building that might otherwise be much like any other.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Tom Loftus has a bachelor degree in architecture from New York Institute of Technology. He also has a certificate in business management from Cornell University and is a licensed architect in New York.

 

Tom's first exposure to working in the architectural field came from a job in wood frame construction. After a number of years working in Westchester County, he brings over 20 years of project management experience to outgoing architects. As studio director, he has extensive knowledge and experience in project management, schematic design, design, development, construction drawings, design quality and project construction.

 

He's also a leader in building and maintaining client relationships, managing teams’ workloads, plus client and consultant coordination. So welcome, Tom. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Aufgang Architects in Suffern New York. So where are you guys located in Suffern? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what kind of work do you guys do?

 

00;02;47;01 - 00;03;37;20

TL

Great, first and foremost. Thanks a lot, Doug, for having me on the podcast today. I'm really excited to be here. So we're located here in downtown Suffern, right down the street from the train station pretty close to central Manhattan. So our firm is about 50 people right now. We primarily do residential work. I'd say about 90% of our work is in the residential field.

 

We do everything from low rise to high rise buildings, primarily in the five boroughs. But we also have projects in the tri state area and a few scattered around the country as well. A lot of those projects are mixed use with commercial on the first, second or few floors and then residential apartments above. The residential work that we do ranges in everything from luxury condos all the way to homeless shelters and really a range of everything in between.

 

00;03;37;22 - 00;03;39;28

DP

So how long has Aufgang Architects been around?

 

00;03;40;05 - 00;04;19;22

TL

Outgoing has been around. I think we're going about 50 years now. Ari is the third owner of the company, and when I started, I worked together with Ari and our former principal, Hugo, and they partnered for a while and he had also taken over the firm from someone else. So probably in the early seventies, if I have my history of the firm correct.

 

We started in Rockland County doing small scale residential rehab work and grew in time and in size with our clients and our work type from one partner to the next, and really have kept our foot in our roots in residential and then grown laterally in the industry.

 

00;04;19;25 - 00;04;27;22

DP

Tom, tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been practicing architecture and your role as studio director?

 

00;04;27;25 - 00;05;16;29

TL

Sure. It feels like forever. Honestly, every once in a while I wonder, am I still really doing this? But I've been in the architecture field now just a little over 20 years, and I started working in Westchester County. Small scale wood frame, residential. It was a natural stepping stone for me. After I got out of high school, I thought I want to be a framer.

 

And after getting really tired of carrying three quarter inch plywood up a ladder, I said, Nope, time to go back to school and study architecture. And from there I worked at a variety of firms in Manhattan, in Westchester County, doing a variety of different work. And when I found this firm, the scale work that we were doing, the residential work, it tied into something I loved with my single family housing experience.

 

It kind of stuck and I ended up staying here for quite a while.

 

00;05;17;01 - 00;05;23;25

DP

It's a long time practicing as an architect. I kind of say the same thing about or to myself about how long it's been.

 

00;05;23;27 - 00;06;23;12

TL

Sure, I've really grown in the company here. It's been a fantastic partnership with Ari. When I started, I came in really as an assistant project manager. A lot of my experience was not relative to the scale of the projects we were doing, although in other firms I was working in a bit of a leadership role running point on smaller scale projects, so it took a little time to learn the ropes, if you will, in the different construction types.

 

And I've moved up into the role of studio director now, so I work very closely with our senior management and the rest of our senior staff looking at our workload, our resource management, project proposals, client relationships and really stay involved with the team from the very start of the project until close out to handle the day to day operations of the office as a whole.

 

Ari, myself and our controller meet frequently to talk about some of the more boring business side of things and then the more fun happens working with the architects on the day to day and the projects.

 

00;06;23;15 - 00;06;33;19

DP

So let's dig in here and talk about this very interesting facade of yours. How did your office get the project, or is this a project that the office created?

 

00;06;33;21 - 00;07;57;02

TL

Yeah, this was actually an interesting project that came at a time when everything started shutting down right at the start of the COVID pandemic. And we had a really good recommendation from a long time client that we had worked with, and we had met a new client remotely who was involved on the construction side of things, and we hit it off.

 

We started talking and it was the first time ever that I met someone virtually and had meetings like this on screens, and we were trying to build a new professional working relationship. So it was very unique in the way that the project started. And again, we do a lot of our work really based on recommendations. We really pride ourselves in building good relationships with our client base, and that's really how the project got started.

 

They had this unique property in Bushwick and if you know the area in Brooklyn at all, it's a lot of small scale row housing, if you will, maybe 3 to 4 storeys and there really aren't too many open lots. And in this particular project it was unique. There was a large portion of the lot that had an easement that couldn't be built on it, and it provided a good amount of air rights which allowed us to follow the zoning path to do a much taller building than you usually would see in this neighborhood.

 

Most of the buildings were very close together, and that's really how it started and how the project grew and how we ended up with a 12 storey building in the middle of Bushwick.

 

00;07;57;05 - 00;08;04;19

DP

So did you guys know right away that you were going to be able to make a tall building there, or did it take a little bit of examination first?

 

00;08;04;21 - 00;08;48;13

TL

It took a little bit of examination. Usually what we do as architects is we really try to help guide our clients to bring their projects to fruition. This is the property I have. What can you build? How much can you build? There are two different zoning parts you can follow, primarily three different zoning parts in New York City that will help you establish the bulk, the height, the size of the building.

 

So we'll study that first and foremost with our clients and present them the different options. And based on the geometry of this lot, when we saw the potential to get a little height on this building, be separated from the other surrounding residential buildings, it gave them a nice opportunity to have a building with some great potential for views in an otherwise low height area.

 

00;08;48;15 - 00;08;53;12

DP

So what was the scope and the programmatic requirements for the project once you got rolling?

 

00;08;53;14 - 00;09;32;03

TL

Typically and specifically to this project, our scope was everything from working with the development team to help them flush out the parameters of their funding program. So when you work with different agencies in New York City and in the state and you're following certain guidelines to provide certain square footages and distribution of units, we work right at the very beginning with them to help them find the right mix and size of units, right with the development team.

 

From there, we work through design and construction administration all the way until the close of the project. So we really gave soup to nuts services here. Full scope on the building.

 

00;09;32;05 - 00;09;48;24

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the building design stylistically. So you guys designed quite a unique facade, while the other three facades, from what I can tell from the photos, are relatively subdued. Tell us about the main idea behind this.

 

00;09;48;26 - 00;11;17;22

TL

First and foremost, we love Brick. Brick as an architect, for us, it's really a timeless material and it's a durable material and it fits in really well to so many different urban fabrics in so many different places. In my opinion, what made 389 unique was the timing that this project was happening. It was happening at a time where the future was uncertain.

 

We didn't know what was going to come of this pandemic. We had to be incredibly mindful of the budget. Many times we like to create building facades that are two different materials having a nice dialog or different color bricks. So we really had to be mindful of availability of product and the economics, the budget, and really try to come up with something that would be unique but be something that the client could achieve.

 

So this is what started driving us to start playing with different bonding patterns if we stacked the brick one way versus another way, if we do a running bond versus a stack bond versus a Flemish bond, how can we play around with our stack in patterns and try to make something unique? So that was really what started pushing us in this direction of going with a single color brick and then really focusing on how to find a challenge enough for the mason that they don't hate us and say these are architects of the worst.

 

Have something be achievable for them. But that also will give a nice unique context to the neighborhood.

 

00;11;17;25 - 00;11;24;28

DP

Were there any aesthetic reviews of the building before you guys got rolling with the city?

 

00;11;24;28 - 00;11;49;21

TL

With the city for this particular project, there were no agencies on the city or state side that had any reason to opine on the design. We were not going for any variances. We didn't really have to go to the community board, although we did not need their aesthetic approvals. It is something that we're always mindful of working within the urban fabric and how it's going to lend itself to the context of the neighborhood is always an important consideration of ours.

 

00;11;49;23 - 00;12;01;09

DP

So let's back up just a little bit. So the building plan, are we talking rectangle, square, relatively straightforward. Then of course, there's parking on the site. You had said that there was a portion of the site that you could not build on.

 

00;12;01;11 - 00;13;07;01

TL

That's correct. So for this particular massing to make this building work, the footprint was rather small. It actually made a very efficient floor plate with a very tight core of stairs, elevator and corridor, and then apartments around all sides of that. So it really became a very compact, high efficiency floor plate with very little loss factor. And it was something that we were able to just work all the way up the building.

 

So there were quite a bit of revisions back and forth, variations that we had worked on to find the right mix and balance of that to fit within the envelope. The same thing then translated to the facade a bit earlier we were talking about what did the design iterations look like there, through the whole process of finding the right solution and the facade design that we felt was the right match for this building.

 

We did digital 3D models, plenty of sketches and even on site mockups working together with the Masons saying, We know you can do this, we believe in you, please don't kill us. And did plenty of mock ups there to really work it out.

 

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;11;25

DP

Was it a challenge finding a good mason, or did you guys have somebody lined up right off the bat?

 

00;13;11;27 - 00;14;04;09

TL

I think that's really one of the keys. You have to have really good subs. So whatever the type of work you're doing in this case, the Masons, you need to have a good working relationship with them. And often it's the architect working directly with the general contractor. But in these cases we invited the Masons into the architecture meetings, we invited them into the AOC meetings towards the end and said, Look, let's work through some of these details.

 

Let's talk through it. How is this going to work? It wasn't incredibly complex or challenging, but we wanted to make sure that the person who was directing their team to install the Brick really felt confident that they could achieve what we were looking for. We never wanted to come out on site and say, This is all wrong. That's not what we want to do.

 

And I really think engaging with those professionals early on is important to try to get the end result that you're looking for.

 

00;14;04;12 - 00;14;16;20

DP

Yeah, we try to bring in a contractor at schematic design. Once we wrap up schematic design, we have them price the project. This is in high and residential work that I do. So single family homes.

 

00;14;16;22 - 00;14;33;09

TL

Right? And in this case we didn't have a mason lined up. We didn't have a recommendation. The developer slash contractor, they were one and the same here. They had already had an existing relationship with this Mason and we started just working with them early on in the process.

 

00;14;33;11 - 00;14;54;17

DP

So could you do your best to describe the evolution of the design of that facade and then try to describe the facade? I'm going to encourage our listeners to go to the Glen-Gery site and take a look at some of these photographs because it's really striking. I've never seen anything like it. It's a great idea. The clients must have been thrilled when you presented the drawings.

 

00;14;54;19 - 00;17;33;18

TL

Thank you very much for that. We've seen a lot of example of brick facade that has quite a bit of movement in it, and these brick facades more often than not, are panelized prefab, and that's a way that you can achieve quite a bit of movement with brick using this idea of this undulation and this movement in the brick as an inspiration.

 

That's what triggered us to start thinking about how a brick pattern, the stacking pattern, really might help us achieve what we wanted to do here. So if our listeners are familiar with Brick parents, which I hope they are, we're in a brick podcast, we utilized a Flemish bond pattern and a running bond pattern. So the Flemish bond pattern has a standard brick with the long face.

 

The following brick is then rotated 90 degrees with the short face and the pattern is repeated. Taking this idea of combining a Flemish bond pattern with a running bond pattern, we now have these bricks that are half size, if you will, square proportion to create the movement and the undulation throughout the facade. We detailed a Flemish bond pattern with a large number of running bond, then a increasing increment of Flemish bond and a decreasing increment to running bond.

 

So we took the pattern and as you got closer to the center of the pattern we created, you had a higher frequency of Flemish bond. And as you moved away towards the end of the pattern that moved vertically up the building, it was stretched out with more running bond. So that's a lot of back and forth with different bond patterns.

 

Ultimately, by having that Flemish bond brick, we then protruded it out from the facade in the center of the pattern where the Flemish bond patterns are stacked very closely together. The bricks protruded the largest amount. And then as that pattern was separated and pulled apart from top to bottom, the brick became closer and closer to the facade.

 

So we basically created a formula that the mason can follow. For every increment, the brick would step out a half inch further, and this is what gave the facade that undulation, as you move up the bricks, steps out and back in by using this bonding pattern. It also created a really dynamic shadow which was something that we really loved.

 

When the sun hits the building the right way, you get a really fantastic shadow where you have that brick and it just really, in my opinion, created a beautiful cadence that worked through that pattern.

 

00;17;33;21 - 00;17;41;27

DP

So it really does remind one of Braille. So how far what's the furthest protrusion for one brick?

 

00;17;42;00 - 00;18;01;07

TL

I do like that description of Braille. You instantly have an image in your mind of these protruding points that they create the pattern. The furthest protrusion is about two and a half inches at the center of the pattern. And then as it works its way down in half inch increments, it goes back down to zero and the pattern becomes flush.

 

00;18;01;10 - 00;18;20;02

DP

So you guys said that you worked on this in 2D and in 3D. I would imagine if you did some sun studies, you got a better sense for how much shade and shadow was going to be produced by these protruding bricks? Did you do the project in BIM? Is it Revit? Because I saw 2D drawings of this?

 

00;18;20;04 - 00;18;42;25

TL

Yes. It isn't Revit. It is a BIM project. While we were in the design phase, we actually used a few different softwares SketchUp and Enscape and Revit along with AutoCAD, and we really did a series of 2D sketches, 2D drawings and 3D studies, partial facade studies. Just to get a sense of how this all might look.

 

00;18;42;28 - 00;18;49;26

DP

And how many iterations ultimately did you go through? I mean, big iterations, like is it two or three or ten or?

 

00;18;49;28 - 00;19;42;12

TL

Once we just came to the conclusion that we need to stick with a singular color brick here in the front, I'd say we probably had about ten different versions. It's a slim, tall building with very large windows, really trying to maintain a nice modulation of those windows in that spacing, but also then maintain a standardized brick dimension. So for a long time we were playing around with the inches of the bricks so that we were at a half size brick or full size brick.

 

Should we use a stack bond and emphasize the verticality of the building? How often should we introduce a horizontal element so that it's not looking like a stack of pancakes, for lack of a better expression? So really, we had a good amount of iterations here until we got to the point where we really like the running bond, Flemish bonds.

 

00;19;42;14 - 00;19;58;19

DP

I like the way you describe that. From what I remember looking at these photos, the windows are framed out differently. So you have a series of windows which have an individual frame, and then at one point in the building, that frame actually wraps a few stories of windows, right? So you break up the facade that way, too.

 

00;19;58;19 - 00;20;26;03

TL

Exactly. Playing with the verticality of the building, we did group a series of windows, two windows stacked vertically, three windows stacked vertically and created a frame around those windows. And this helped take that 12 story building and just give it a little bit of scale as it moved up the building. So these groups have two vertical windows that are now framed together.

 

Then also had the movement of the undulating brick happening between them.

 

00;20;26;05 - 00;20;28;28

DP

You guys really thought through it. It's a real beautiful facade.

 

00;20;29;04 - 00;20;29;29

TL

Thank you.

 

00;20;30;01 - 00;20;34;06

DP

So how big was the team that worked on the project? Just a few people?

 

00;20;34;08 - 00;21;17;08

TL

Every project is staffed with a dedicated associate director who are all registered architects, a project manager, and then the support staff. When we were in the design phase, we had the project manager working together with one of our designers. So we really had a team of to playing around with this and then bouncing the idea back off of the associate on the project.

 

Then once we really ramped it up into production, we would stack two or three people on the project. As you get closer to submission deadlines and trying to get into the Department of Buildings to get permits done, we would build the team up. Usually there was always at least two people on the project that were always there from day one.

 

They haven't left the project and they stayed on from beginning to end.

 

00;21;17;10 - 00;21;26;09

DP

So how long did it take to build the building? I would imagine it was pretty cool watching that facade go up. First couple stories. You must have been thinking, Wow, man, this is going to be something.

 

00;21;26;12 - 00;21;51;29

TL

You know, the construction team, they did a fantastic job. They had a really good crew out there. And around 24 months, the building went up and then all the fine details coming out of the pandemic. It was interesting. There were certain trades that just took longer because of materiality, distribution chain, supply chain, availability of product, which threw little curveballs here and there.

 

But all in all, the sequence and timing was fairly smooth.

 

00;21;52;01 - 00;22;01;13

DP

So it seems like I learned something new every project. Was there anything that you guys learned while you were out in the field or doing these drawings or dealing with the client?

 

00;22;01;16 - 00;22;48;06

TL

There certainly was. You know, I had spoken about the Mason earlier on, and that was certainly a good lesson. Building a good relationship with your Mason early in the project is really important and I joke about it. Sometimes they look at the architect's details and think, Are these guys crazy? We're not going to build this. There's going to be a better way to do it.

 

And I think that was really the big lesson we took here, establishing that good relationship and also giving the tradesmen the respect that they deserve. They're installing the work. They know some of the nuances of how this gets installed and taking that into consideration, finding that common ground so that you don't bring your ego into the conversation and giving them that professional respect and you're going to get it back.

 

That was definitely a good lesson here.

 

00;22;48;08 - 00;23;16;16

DP

That seems like a lesson I've learned over and over again throughout my career. When you're young, you go out there and you think you know everything and you've got an answer for everything, or you're going to fake your way through it, or however you choose to deal with it. But as you get older, you realize that these people that you're working with, many of them have an awful lot of experience, and it would be a good idea to sit and listen to them and actually ask them questions rather than tell them what to do.

 

00;23;16;18 - 00;23;38;10

TL

That's right. And I always find that working with our up and coming project managers and our younger staff, it's always those lessons that you try to instill in them. It helps them understand how to build those relationships because this industry is built on relationships and if we can do that, we're going to navigate successfully through any project.

 

00;23;38;13 - 00;23;58;03

DP

Well, you guys have been around a long time, 50 years. Goodness gracious. That's incredible. Congratulations, Tom. You've been an architect for over two decades. Based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or maybe some young architects working their way up the ranks?

 

00;23;58;05 - 00;24;13;16

TL

Yes, don't worry. It's going to work out, if you love it, stick with it. It's a long road. And just when you think maybe you should change your major, you might still be out of college 20 years and asking yourself, Should I change my major? If you love it, stick with it. It's rewarding.

 

00;24;13;19 - 00;24;28;05

DP

That's really funny. I feel like I've changed my major all the time.

 

My goodness. So, Tom, it's been great to have you here. Thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Wolfgang Architects and yourself?

 

00;24;28;07 - 00;24;38;19

TL

They can go right to our web site at Aufgang.com and they can find all the information about us there. They can follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter and all the different platforms.

 

00;24;38;21 - 00;24;45;21

DP

Well, thank you very much, Tom. It's been great. And I encourage people to go to the site and take a look at this very interesting building. Thank you.

 

00;24;45;29 - 00;24;50;18

TL

Doug. I really appreciate it. It was great chatting with you here today. I had a great time.

 

00;24;50;21 - 00;25;18;12

DP

Awesome. Thank you.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;15 - 00;00;36;09

Rob Clocker (RC)

This collection of blocks has several landscaped alleys to help connect people from front to back. So having pedestrian connections through the block were an important part of the planning of the project. The project itself is a fairly typical four and five stories of housing overtop of a parking podium kind of housing project, which you see all over the country.

 

But we had hoped to blend it in with the neighborhood, of course, and so had to find ways to tie it together.

 

00;00;36;11 - 00;03;34;04

DP

This is my guest, Rob Clocker. I'll share more about him shortly in this episode from The Design Vault. We highlight Rob's project, 55 Brighton Avenue in Boston, Massachusetts. 55 Brighton is a mixed use commercial project that marks the completion of the Packard Crossing housing development in the Allston neighborhood of Boston. The building transforms a once underutilized site that previously housed retail and parking lots.

 

Transform the site into a vibrant and sustainable addition to the community. The architecture pays homage to the area's manufacturing heritage. The design concept reflects the vibrant streetscape patterns and automotive detailing. The building contains nearly 100,000 square feet of finished space, with an additional 70,000 square feet allocated to structured parking. The project reinterprets the rhythms and scale of the surrounding block, while paying homage to the area's automotive heritage.

 

The facade, with its distinctive folded fan like design, draws nostalgic inspiration from the wing tails of iconic 1950s automobiles. This design move prompted by the adjacent historic Packard Manufacturing facility. The brick details tie into the fabric of the neighborhood and add warmth and familiarity. While metal panels at the top floor create a dynamic visual contrast to the brick facade.

 

The complex embraces sustainable design strategies and materials such as low flow fixtures, solar panels and groundwater recharge. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Hi. Rob Clocker holds a master of architecture degree from MIT and an undergraduate degree in architecture from the University of Virginia. Previously a senior associate at Perkins and Will in San Francisco. He's now a vice president and managing principal at Hacin, an award winning interdisciplinary architecture and design firm in Boston.

 

With 30 years of experience and award winning renovation and new construction projects. Rob's worked on buildings from office towers to land ports of entry. During his time in Hacin, he completed the Whitney Hotel in Beacon Hill, The IIDA New England award winning ideas. Cambridge Public Garden Townhouse and 55 Brighton Avenue. He's also managing the ongoing mixed use development at 41 Berkeley Street.

 

As an advocate for stewardship of the built environment, he's spoken on adaptive reuse and sustainable design. Rob is a registered architect, LEED accredited professional and member of the Ipswich Zoning Board of Appeals. So welcome, Rob. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Hacin Architecture and Design firm in Boston. So where are you guys located in the city?

 

What's the size of the firm? How long have you been around and what type of architectural and design work do you do?

 

00;03;34;07 - 00;04;42;16

RC

Thank you, Doug. It's really great to be here with you. Hacin is, as you mentioned, an interdisciplinary design firm where 35 people we take the word interdisciplinary pretty seriously. We have architects, we have interior designers, we have visual and graphic designers. And we think of that because as a concept driven firm, we like to take the idea of the design all the way from the outside of the architecture to the inside and throughout to the entire experience.

 

The firm is located in the south end of Boston, which is one of Boston's many historic neighborhoods. It was founded 30 years ago by our founding principal. David Hacin started at his dining room table and gradually built up to the 35 people we have today. And all that time has been in the South end. So in some sense, we're a neighborhood architecture firm.

 

In another sense, we think we've learned how to build buildings and do design in places that people love in ways that they recognize. We like to joke that the buildings we build are ones we ourselves are going to have to live with ten, 20, 30 years from now.

 

00;04;42;19 - 00;04;47;03

DP

So you were at Perkins and well, for a little while and then ultimately found Hacin.

 

00;04;47;05 - 00;05;36;12

RC

It's a little bit of a convoluted story but yes, those are the facts. My career trajectory had me moving across the country four times to California and back to Boston, and I did each of those moves twice. But the last time when I was in California, I worked with Perkins and Will, and that experience was quite formative in terms of some of the things we may be talking about today because we were an outgrowth of another local firm in San Francisco, which did a lot of adaptive reuse work.

 

And in that role, I was able to learn surprisingly quite a bit about Brick, even though we were in San Francisco, where you don't think of that as a building material. And there's quite a bit of historic architecture out there, as you might imagine. So learning to work in that context set the stage for some of the projects I do today.

 

00;05;36;15 - 00;05;47;25

DP

So you've been Hacin how seen relative to all of the other things that you've done in the practice of architecture?

 

00;05;47;27 - 00;06;31;12

RC

My current role, which is relatively new one, starting as of last year, I'm managing principal of the firm, our founding principal, after 30 years, and a lot of growth, decided that it would be a good idea to get a new batch of principals. So we have five of us now, in addition to David Hacin and as the managing principal.

 

My job, of course, is to try to help us stay focused on the business side of the practice, which, as you may know, as an architect, isn't the most fun part. However, it does matter tremendously, and I like to think of it as fundamental to helping us do the great design work we do, because ultimately, if we don't do good business work, we're not going to be able to do great design work.

 

00;06;31;15 - 00;06;37;25

DP

So true. So let's dig in here and talk a little bit about the project. How did you guys get the work?

 

00;06;37;27 - 00;07;38;12

RC

Sure. As with many projects in Boston, it's a very much relationship based city. This owner, the Hamilton Company, is old company and one of the largest landlords in Boston founded by Harold Brown. And in that very neighborhood that the project exists, we developed a relationship with them and they reached out to us specifically because they understood that we knew how to fit new buildings into existing neighborhoods, as well as to help owners like this company navigate the sometimes complex approvals process, which you find in many East Coast cities.

 

And Boston is certainly one that has its web of interested parties in every project. The Hamilton Company, however, because of being a longstanding company, has very good relationships with the neighborhood, with neighborhood association owns as well as the city. And so it was a good partnership in coming up with a design that would appeal to a lot of different factions.

 

00;07;38;14 - 00;07;45;19

DP

So tell us a little bit about the site, the history of the location, what was there and what you guys ultimately built.

 

00;07;45;21 - 00;08;45;14

RC

This site, which is an area called Packard's Crossing, which is so named because originally it was a location of a Packard car manufacturing plant, is a mixed use site. It has a lot of Boston rowhouses that go further down the street from our location. But the location of the particular project did have some of those more industrial uses.

 

And in the more recent years it had been transformed somewhat into parking lots and some low rise retail in ways that weren't necessarily sensitive to the neighborhood. As it happens, one of those buildings was the owners primary headquarters, and so it was a very near and dear to them that they do something on this site, which was good.

 

And because this was their headquarters, they owned numerous properties that adjoins. So they undertook a master planning process with us to think about how they could not only develop a 55 Brighton but 83 Gardiner, which is nearby and tie it all together in a sensitive way.

 

00;08;45;17 - 00;08;51;19

DP

So what was the ultimate scope and what were the programmatic requirements for the project? The building you designed.

 

00;08;51;21 - 00;09;52;29

RC

The program for 55 Brighton, on the face of it, is a fairly straightforward program. It's 77 rental units, a housing and parking garage for that housing as well as retail that would line Brighton Avenue, which is a mixed use street. The more interesting or maybe effective overlay of that program is that this collection of blocks has several landscaped alleys to help connect people from front to back.

 

The streets in this neighborhood aren't necessarily as frequent as some city streets are. And so having pedestrian connections through the block were an important part of the planning of the project, as well as part of the approvals for the project. And the project itself is a fairly typical four and five stories of housing overtop of a parking podium kind of housing project, which you see all over the country.

 

But we had hoped to blend it in with the neighborhood, of course, and so had to find ways to tie it together.

 

00;09;53;01 - 00;10;20;18

DP

Yeah, it's an interesting building. So you guys had to do a bunch of things with the architect. Sure. You used a lot of masonry out there, various colors, but the brick patterning and specifically stylistically the building facade as it sort of peels away in a number of locations. Very interesting. So the building's contemporary, particularly the cantilevered folding panels, and yet you utilize brick and various traditional patterns and colors.

 

So tell us a little bit about that.

 

00;10;20;21 - 00;12;26;05

RC

Sure. Our approach to the design of the facade, especially on Brighton Avenue, was the kind we take to many of our projects, which is to look carefully at the context. We look at not only what's built today, but what was built in the neighborhood previously and of course, like many of these traditional neighborhoods, there's a strong rhythm of bays and of brick along the street, which on one hand we wanted to pick up some kind of rhythm, but on the other hand, we certainly didn't want to just mimic it.

 

That's always the challenge we have as designers is how do we build something for today in a neighborhood from yesterday? So what we chose to do in this case, as you mentioned, is we peel the brick facade back in a regular rhythm of bays, which echoes those bays further down the street. But we do it in a way that isn't just your traditional symmetrical bay.

 

It lifts the facade apart in a sense. So when you're looking at it from one direction, you see a rhythm of brick bays. When you look at it from the other direction, it looks like a number of vertical metal turrets that are more reflective of what you see beyond because in that direction you're looking towards downtown, where you see a lot of the towers of downtown Boston.

 

So that was an important design aspect as well that you had a different experience of this building from one direction than you do from the other. And then one other aspect of that design choice has to do with how brick is used today. We no longer build load bearing brick walls. There's a lot of reasons for that, as much as we love them, but there are many, many load bearing brick walls in Boston.

 

So when we peel these elements back, we're just using face brick cavity wall construction like you see on all contemporary construction. But we wrapped it around, so it's the thickness of a load bearing wall, but you can still see that it's suspended in there. It's a little bit of a tongue in cheek acknowledgment of it's both symbolic of a load bearing material, but also it's being used in a way that's contemporary as a way to clad the building and give it a sense of identity.

 

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;37;26

DP

So let's back up just for a second. I always like to ask the architects about the project restrictions they had in regard to zoning or historical requirements. Could you talk a little bit about that?

 

00;12;37;28 - 00;12;45;19

RC

This project, like everywhere in Boston, as I mentioned, we have a robust approvals process for any larger projects.

 

00;12;45;19 - 00;12;50;06

DP

I like the word robust, it's very respectful.

 

00;12;50;13 - 00;13;49;06

RC

All the intentions are good. Sometimes it can become complex. Of course, this project is larger than would have normally been allowed by the underlying zoning, so it went through this process to approve a larger building and part of those approvals then have a lot to do with review of the design to make sure that the design is going to mitigate the scale of the building fit into the neighborhood in ways that we hope we've been able to be successful here, and that also there are elements to the design which contribute to the neighborhood, which gets back to some of those connections in the landscaping that I mentioned.

 

And as it happens on top of the rear of the building on one level, up on the parking is an extensively landscaped courtyard which is made for the residents of the building. So to this approval, we of course, had to meet with neighborhood groups. We had to go through numerous public hearings and we think we reached a place where all parties felt like there was a good compromise with this building.

 

00;13;49;08 - 00;13;51;14

DP

So was there a historical review.

 

00;13;51;20 - 00;14;02;26

RC

In this particular neighborhood? Interestingly enough, there was not a historic district review. This piece of Boston, although it has a lot of buildings from long ago, is not a designated landmark district.

 

00;14;02;28 - 00;14;27;09

DP

Interesting. Yeah, I thought the notion of showing this facade as it peels away as a thick masonry wall, this kind of tongue in cheek reference to historic architecture is really interesting. A great idea. Tell us a little bit about the building and plan. It looks like a giant rectangle, and yet you've done an awful lot with the facade and the undulations in the forms.

 

00;14;27;11 - 00;16;39;13

RC

That's one simple thing about the building is that the site is a rectangle, which we don't get a lot of those in Boston. So we were excited about that. But the housing portion component is an L-shape because as you know, with multifamily housing, there's a dimension which plays itself out really well. The rectangle of the footprint of the building has to do with the parking.

 

So the front of that is lined with retail on the building lobby. And then above that is the two lengths of the L-shaped housing. What we did with that then is to articulate those different volumes. That's also where we turn to the brick patterning to identify the different areas of the building. And we had to do this though, within some constraints of course, because this is a rental building and the owners wanted to keep the housing reasonably affordable.

 

So all of the brick we use is actually just standard modular brick, which means it's the kind of brick that we love because it's easy to lay out. It creates an eight inch by eight inch grid on the building and to be creative with modular brick, we had to do things like turn the brick on its side, create soldier courses and find ways to push the brick inward and outwards to create shadow lines.

 

And one of the aspects of these fins on the front of the building that we've been talking about is that they actually curve outward from the main facade. But we wanted to achieve this curve without buying any special bricks. And when the contractors did their mock up and brought it out in the sun, everybody to our horror, recognized that it was creating all kinds of jagged shadows because the bricks were rectangular and they were trying to create a curve in order to help them with that.

 

We actually went back to our drawings. We laid out the coursing of those brick courses and created them some full sized brick causing diagrams, which the Masons then used. They relayed out the mockups and it came out looking smooth. And this was one of those cases where what we love about Brick is it depends so much on the Masons and their desire and skill to make things work.

 

And that back and forth really, I think made the building much better.

 

00;16;39;16 - 00;17;04;29

DP

So let's start with the parameters for building materials. When you guys got rolling, did you just decide, Well, Boston's got a lot of bricks, so that's what we're going to use for the majority of the building. And then talk a little bit more about some of these coursing tapes that you use, because I did see some soldier coursing.

 

I saw some regular type of courses. And then, of course, there are all kinds of strategies to create shadow lines in the facade underneath the windows, etc..

 

00;17;05;01 - 00;18;17;23

RC

Yeah, the decision to use brick, as you say, dug was a pretty foregone conclusion. We were working in a block where all of the existing buildings, the historic buildings were brick, and it's the kind of material that really helps bring identity to the building in a way that people feel like fits with Boston. This was an idea that sometimes we fight as designers, we think we want to do something new in this city that's all made out of bricks.

 

But I think over time we've come to recognize that the fact of Brick in Boston is one that's time tested. It's one that brings identity to the place. And so we accepted it fairly quickly and then set out to figure out, well, how do we create different proportions, different forms, and articulate the building with these bricks as well as bring different colors to it.

 

So it's not all just red brick. We did use a much darker brick for the base of the building, which helps ground the building helps those bays feel like they're floating up above. And then in the courtyard we use some yellow brick, which is not what you see from the street. It gives you some variation for the expression of the building and also brightens up that space.

 

00;18;17;25 - 00;18;24;20

DP

Could you tell us a little bit more about the coursing types and the strategies to create shadow lines in the facade?

 

00;18;24;23 - 00;19;10;10

RC

Yes, we were constrained to using just regular shaped bricks. One of the coursing techniques we used was to help with the rhythm of the windows of the building. With housing, you get repetitive windows because we want to use the same kind of windows and we have repetitive apartment units. However, we wanted to create some different scale to those windows, and we use this by creating brick panels which frame some of the windows and help the windows appear to create larger patterns on the facade.

 

And in these brick patterns, we simply stacked the bricks and then pushed every other brick inward by about an inch, which created this nice textured shadow line, which gave it a little bit of depth similar to the depth the window had. That was one of the techniques we used to help give the building some life.

 

00;19;10;12 - 00;19;28;08

DP

So it's also interesting you guys ended up doing mock ups, which we all as architects end up seeing in the field an awful lot of times when we're using a lot of masonry or when things get complex. How did you do the drawings? The architectural drawings, were there 3D, was it BIM modeling, was it 2D?

 

00;19;28;10 - 00;20;38;26

RC

On this project, like many of our projects, we have both a design model and then a construction model. So early on we built the building and sketch up that lets us study forms colors fairly quickly and do variations to help dial in some of the aspects of the building which are going to be most conducive to the design as well as lets us be flexible with some of the city approvals processes when different requirements are brought up around the design development phase, though, we certainly built the same model in Revit and that becomes the actual construction model and Revit is where we really get into the brick detailing.

 

We don't draw every single brick, although we sometimes like our clients to think we're doing that. We use a combination of patterns on the surface of the model, which are very accurate to the brick module with certain areas where we will go in and manually layout the coursing because we know it needs to work in a certain way.

 

And so we do love using these tools. They really help us make sure that what we draw is what the Masons are going to be able to build.

 

00;20;38;28 - 00;21;01;25

DP

Yeah, I was really surprised when I was looking at the photographs, the peeling facade, if you will, these fan like projections. There was one photograph I looked at and you can actually start to see the curve the way the brick is manipulated in the facade. So it's not a hard line. I did not expect that when I saw that photograph.

 

That must have been really interesting to see worked out in the field.

 

00;21;01;27 - 00;22;01;22

RC

It was very interesting to see worked out in the field. That curve, however simple it seemed to us, was actually somewhat difficult for the Masons to achieve. They did do a mock up of that curve, which was not successful initially because when they laid out that mock up and put it in the sun, we saw immediately that the corners of the bricks were shadowing over top of each other, that they were struggling to make sure the crossing was smooth.

 

And so we went back to our drawings and we laid out each course a brick for them and printed a full sized drawing of that, causing to have them give that a try because we use the geometry of the curve to lay out where the corners should fall. Then when the Masons used that template and rebuilt the mockup, it actually came out quite smooth, which is the result you see today.

 

And we're actually kind of excited because that's a 20 degree change in plain between the face of the building and those projections, and it's achieved in two and a half courses of brick.

 

00;22;01;25 - 00;22;03;16

DP

My gosh, that's incredible.

 

00;22;03;19 - 00;22;08;04

RC

Flat bricks too. So we didn't have to buy curved bricks, which nobody likes to do.

 

00;22;08;06 - 00;22;16;15

DP

Did you do that by making the radius larger for that curve rather than having a smaller radius? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

00;22;16;17 - 00;22;37;28

RC

It was almost simpler than that. The radius didn't change. It's just which parts of the brick touched the radius needed to be adjusted because the Masons were having the corners and the flats of the bricks that were of course with each other overlapping in a way that cast shadows. And if we just moved those back, the shadows faded away.

 

00;22;38;04 - 00;22;44;01

DP

Very cool. So how many people were on the team working on the building over time?

 

00;22;44;03 - 00;23;10;16

RC

From the start of the project, we had just a couple of people. We had our project manager, Jeff Brown, as well as a couple of junior designers helping with the various models and presentations. By the time we got to CDs, there were five of us putting the drawings together and then for construction it was down back to just two of us getting through the various needs of the construction site.

 

00;23;10;18 - 00;23;14;23

DP

And how long was the process start to finish, including reviews.

 

00;23;14;25 - 00;23;42;12

RC

These kind of projects, tt's always interesting to answer that question because we've been working on this site with this owner for over ten years. This project was in the queue to it's the biggest one on the site, but it was one of the last ones we did with them. So the early ideas for it were probably seven or eight years ago.

 

But by the time we started the actual design, that took a little over a year and a half, then the construction took about two and a half years.

 

00;23;42;14 - 00;23;51;03

DP

So I love to ask architects if there was anything interesting through the design and construction process that you guys learned that was kind of new to you?

 

00;23;51;05 - 00;24;55;27

RC

Yeah, I think this project probably one of the more interesting and challenging but creative aspects of the project is that this client is their own developer and their own contractor. They are the ones who both financed the building and built the building, but they did hire us to design the building and of course hired the subcontractors to build the building with them.

 

But there were many times when you're working with a client who is building their own buildings that they are in a hurry because they figured they know what they're doing and they want to move forward and so very often we would find ourselves kind of rushing to stay, keep up with them. And what I think was an important lesson for us or something we were glad about is that we did take the time to do a really strong set of drawings during the design phase so that every time the client tried to get ahead of us, we had a good set of documents to help them not get into trouble.

 

That's not always the case. Sometimes clients will hurry you through the design with the thought that during construction you can figure out some more of the details.

 

00;24;56;00 - 00;25;00;24

DP

So the project wasn't bid out then to a contractor or it was?

 

00;25;00;27 - 00;25;11;02

RC

The project was not bid out to a general contractor because the general contractor was the client. However, they did bid out all of the different trades, including the masonry trades.

 

00;25;11;04 - 00;25;15;01

DP

So it was an extraordinarily thorough set by the time you guys were done.

 

00;25;15;08 - 00;25;19;17

RC

We did have a very strong set of drawings which always makes us happy and protects us.

 

00;25;19;19 - 00;25;32;24

DP

Makes things a little easier down the road. So, Rob, you've been an architect for a while. Based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or even young architects coming down the pike?

 

00;25;32;27 - 00;25;56;13

RC

Sure. I think one of the pieces of advice I have learned over the career is it really matters to trust in the simplicity of design and to keep things basic. You may think, as I did as a young designer, that you need to add a lot of ideas and things like Brick are boring. But actually if you just stick with the basics, you can come up with quite an elegant solution.

 

00;25;56;15 - 00;26;33;06

DP

Yeah, I always find that interesting, this idea that when you have limitations or parameters, many times young people think, Well, I'm not going to be able to do anything creative inside of this notion that things should be simple or minimal in some way. And yet I think that is the key to creating things that have never been done before.

 

Perhaps I love this idea that when I'm given lots of restrictions, I still have to be, I still want to be creative. So I think that ties a little bit into what you just said.

 

00;26;33;09 - 00;26;54;11

RC

I completely agree. I think something else we find about trying to stick with the basics is very often when you're trying to tell a story and come up with a concept which other people can understand, you really have to stick to the story and stick to the basics. And so these rules were made for a reason and they're really great to flex and learn from.

 

00;26;54;14 - 00;27;03;24

DP

Well, Rob, thank you very much for being with us today. And thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Hacin Architecture and Design and yourself?

 

00;27;03;26 - 00;27;21;20

RC

Thank you, Doug. It's been a great pleasure to be here today. And you can go to www.Hacin.com to learn about us or come to Boston's South End. And we're always happy to give people a tour of both our projects and a lot of the great historic architecture in Boston.

 

00;27;21;22 - 00;27;27;28

DP

Well, thanks again, Rob. Beautiful project. Congratulations. And we'll see you around Boston.

 

00;27;28;01 - 00;27;31;10

RC

Thank you, Doug.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

DP (Doug Pat)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;33;19

JI (Jeremy Iannucci)

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape, where they start up in the northwest corner. Move around down West Street and then below, creating a U that opens up towards the water. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;00;33;22 - 00;02;07;13

DP

In this special series, we're unlocking some of the most powerful conversations we've had so far. We're connecting the dots, revealing hidden gems, and unearthing insights that might have slipped by. All to spark your next big idea with brick. Whether you're looking for fresh inspiration or innovative solutions, this series is designed to fuel your creativity. So let's dive in.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault.

 

Today we explore mixed use developments, a type of urban design that integrates multiple uses such as residential, commercial, cultural, institutional, and entertainment into one cohesive space. Mixed use projects aim to create vibrant, interconnected communities by physically and functionally blending these diverse components, often prioritizing pedestrian friendly environments. This bonus episode highlights three remarkable mixed use projects from past episodes, emphasizing insights from architects Jeremy Iannucci, John Zimmer, and Vincente Quiroga.

 

We'll explore the architectural design process, construction challenges and the thoughtful use of materials, particularly brickwork, to bring these complex developments to life.

 

Jeremy Iannucci discussed One Java, a residential project in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. This ambitious development balances sustainability, affordability and marketability with cutting edge features.

 

00;02;07;19 - 00;02;36;27

JI

The site's 200ft in the North south and then between West Street and the East River around 600ft, with 40ft reserved for a waterfront esplanade. We actually pulled back even a little bit further from that, and it's located right on the waterfront in Greenpoint. There was recently a rezoning that allowed for a whole redesign of the waterfront, and our project is one of the earlier projects in that redevelopment.

 

00;02;36;29 - 00;02;42;19

DP

So could you give us an idea of what the scope of the project is and the programmatic requirements?

 

00;02;42;26 - 00;03;03;06

JI

So it's a residential project of around 834 units, encompassing a total of around 800,000ft². This also comes with a series of amenity spaces, a series of retail spaces, as well as that waterfront park and also a collection of rooftop amenities in greenspace.

 

00;03;03;08 - 00;03;10;03

DP

So let's talk about the building design. Stylistically, were you guys borrowing from anything locally?

 

00;03;10;05 - 00;03;35;06

JI

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood historically, and Greenpoint specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material bricks with the two precast towers.

 

00;03;35;08 - 00;03;40;11

DP

So what was on the site before you guys ended up building the new architecture?

 

00;03;40;13 - 00;04;04;25

JI

Previously, there was a two story warehouse on the site, and it really was kind of a beautiful space in its own right before. We got the chance to tour around, before it was demolished. And I think walking around really inspired us just with these qualities of light and materials and things that were really native to the waterfront before all of this redevelopment.

 

00;04;04;28 - 00;04;14;08

DP

And the project, as I said, very large. Could you tell me a little bit about the zoning requirements and any challenges you guys had in terms of planning?

 

00;04;14;10 - 00;05;11;19

JI

So the project is as of right. It follows the zoning guidelines. The lot itself is actually split up into two different zones. So towards the inland it's mostly low rise. We had a height cap of 65ft with portions that were allowable to go up to 100. And then towards the waterfront. The zoning actually got a little more complicated where there were a few different conditions that you could meet.

 

It opened up these different paths for how the building could be formed. One path was a one tower scheme, which would bring you up to 360ft. And then the other was actually a two tower scheme where if one tower made it to 200ft, the other would be allowed up to 400ft. We took advantage of that in order to move more of the mass to the waterfront.

 

It helped gradually declined building back into the fabric of the community, and it provided more waterfront views.

 

00;05;11;21 - 00;05;19;14

DP

John Zimmer shared insights on The Lively, an 18 story tower in Jersey City's Powerhouse Arts District.

 

00;05;19;17 - 00;06;12;23

JZ (John Zimmer)

The Powerhouse Arts District in Jersey City is so named because there is a somewhat iconic powerhouse there. It had been an industrial area that was targeted for redevelopment, and they had design standards for the entire district that were meant to maintain that character. Not necessarily industrial, but loft style, focus on the arts. The entire district has a strong focus on the arts, which is part of the reason we have the black box theater in The Lively.

 

It's experienced a lot of new development over the course of the last decade, and it's pretty great today. When I first started going over to the powerhouse ten years ago, I'd get out of meetings and the sidewalks would be deserted, and today it feels like Brooklyn. It feels like the East Village. I mean, it is incredibly, for want of a better word, lively.

 

So it's a great neighborhood now, and it's all happened in the last decade. It's an exciting thing to have been a part of, honestly.

 

00;06;12;26 - 00;06;20;01

DP

This mixed use development includes retail spaces, a black box theater, and residential units.

 

00;06;20;03 - 00;07;17;00

JZ

180 residential units. Lennar is one of the biggest home builders in America, but they were mostly doing suburban subdivision work. They got into the urban markets. I can't tell you exactly one, but they were still a little bit new to it. When we took this project on and they were ambitious, they wanted to be at the absolute top of the market for a residential building in Jersey city.

 

And obviously, as any developer does, they wanted to maximize rentable square footage and get the most bang for their buck. And they had this requirement for the black box theater. You know, the project came with this with its approval, but it got a zoning bonus for having the theater in the base of extra height. It was a give back to the community that was written into the zoning, and we always knew it was going to be a theater, and we always knew it was going to be for a nonprofit arts group.

 

And that arts program as part of the building was in the DNA of the project from the very beginning, and informed a lot of the decisions moving forward became part of the personality of the building throughout, not just the theater itself, really.

 

00;07;17;03 - 00;07;23;18

DP

Vincente Quiroga discussed 29 Huron, a two tower development in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

 

00;07;23;20 - 00;08;40;15

VQ (Vincente Quiroga)

The history of the site, you know, it's a long, narrow site. Our building massing is 100ft in the north south direction. It's over 500ft in the east west direction. So it's very distended and lengthened and narrowed. The original site was a one story warehouse, which was kind of the context of the neighborhood. I lived in that neighborhood many years ago, and that was the context.

 

The context is changing primarily because in a sort of Bloomberg era, there was up zoning plan, but then the 2008 crisis stalled those plans, and it took a while for that increase, zoning and development to come to fruition. And so we were part of that increased zoning for the site. In terms of the massing, we wanted to take a sense of the character that was there and honor that.

 

Not all the projects that we see built. Really take that into account. And we were thinking, what is the context now and what was the context in the past? So we really thought about selecting a one story podium and selecting brick as the foundation for that, and also being practical about the openings and where they are located. The emphasis for the target population would be families.

 

So large units, lots of two bedroom and three bedroom units, a lot of outdoor access and the views because of its waterfront proximity.

 

00;08;40;18 - 00;09;05;15

DP

Yeah, the site is unbelievable and you guys really take advantage of just about everything out there. It's a great project. So let's talk about the design. So first let's talk about the building stylistically. So to me it looks a lot like a very contemporary warehouse space right. So there's lots of glass. It almost appears lantern like in the photos that I saw at dusk.

It's beautiful.

 

00;09;05;18 -  00;09;34;00

VQ

The choice of the materials was very specific. The neighborhood has a unique grid orientation to the world, and so it captures the light in the sunrise and sunset, in particular the brick. We chose to be a rough molded brick with a dark mortar, and the metal panel has a mica flake to it that captures the light and changes throughout the day.

 

So some times it looks orange and coppery. Sometimes it actually looks bronze toned and it has a chocolate Sienna under glass to it.

 

00;09;34;07 - 00;09;42;01

DP

Each project faced unique challenges. 29 Huron is situated in a flood zone requiring innovative solutions.

 

00;09;42;04 - 00;10;20;28

VQ

The first story is about 17ft in height, and so there's some very high ceiling experiences there, ranging from 12 to 14ft ceilings within the amenities alone. And that also gave us the room to deal with some of the flood constraints as well. Being that the site is adjacent to the East River, the predicted flood zones right now are anywhere from 5 to 6ft above grade.

 

So that was a challenge and a constraint early on where we had to coordinate. We certainly decided we weren't going to excavate because of the high water table. So some of the functions that you would put in the cellar, we put a grade, but we often had to elevate the critical services six feet above where you normally would place them.

 

00;10;21;01 - 00;10;27;26

DP

So I'm curious, when you're digging that close to the water, do you get a lot of water, a lot of groundwater coming in when you're creating your foundation?

 

00;10;27;27 - 00;10;56;08

VQ

Yes. You do. Yes. Early on there was a lot of pile driving very deep anywhere from, I would say 30 or 40ft down. And those piles were linked up with large caps, pile caps, and then mat foundations at the towers. The slab itself, because of, you know, you have to think more like a boat or a bathtub. The slab itself was anywhere from 24in to 18in thick at various points throughout it, and it has to resist uplift.

 

00;10;56;11 - 00;11;01;27

DP

Well, that's really interesting. So when you're driving piles and there's a lot of bedrock, how do you do that?

 

00;11;01;29 - 00;11;21;04

VQ

The nature of the historic waterfront is often landfilled. So a lot of it is just trash or sediment. Over 200 years, people just dump things in the river. And it created a new shoreline, which was often the case, as you see in lower Manhattan as well. So we knew that we were going to have to go deep to hit rock.

 

00;11;21;10 - 00;11;25;28

DP

So you're driving the piles then 25 or 30ft in?

 

00;11;25;29 - 00;12;21;29

VQ

Yeah. And another challenge relating to the waterfront edges we had to deal with actually coordinate with the marine architect because the edge condition was failing and we needed to remediate it. So we coordinated a new driving a new sheet edge along the shore to create that. The site actually is interesting in that it has a natural cove condition that other areas along the waterfront don't.

 

And so we recreated that in the remediation. But we also worked with the landscape architect to create this, We're obligated by zoning to create a setback for public access on the site. So they really leaned into that curved cove condition that's set back and stepped it down to the water gradually from grade, and incorporated eco concrete blocks that have various pockets that allow kind of tidepool action to happen.

 

And so we thought about breaking down the shoreline a little bit and not just a hard edge.

 

00;12;22;02 - 00;12;31;12

DP

It sounds really interesting. I mean, when somebody owns a piece of property like that and it's really sitting on debris, in many cases, it's kind of unusual.

 

00;12;31;14 - 00;13;07;28

VQ

I mean, we tried to find opportunities to maximize the value of the site with the two towers strategy. We put lots of valuable floor area up high and took advantage of the views. We made double the amount of corner units that you could have by having a two towers. We also separated them over 100ft apart, so that the west tower really gets out there in front of other buildings that are it's alongside the east tower is a setback for the east to kind of get around other buildings that could obscure it.

 

And we were actually surprised at how good the views are as it was being built. We knew it was going to be good, but it actually turned out to be better than we anticipated.

 

00;13;08;00 - 00;13;14;27

DP

It's really beautiful about the design as the corners are opened up, then to become porches, right? Terraces. Is that correct?

 

00;13;15;00 - 00;13;34;04

VQ

That's right. So as part of that is a response to some zoning constraints. At a certain height, you also had to setback in multiple directions. And one of the things that we like to do is incorporate our balconies into the building facade and not just look like appendages. So we really took advantage of that setback rule and created these covered, protected balconies.

 

00;13;34;07 - 00;13;44;23

DP

The Lively was also situated in a flood zone, requiring solutions such as deployable barriers, elevated critical systems and flood resistant glazing.

 

00;13;44;25 - 00;14;09;02

JZ

The unique topographic feature would be that it's below the 100 year flood elevation. That's always a big deal. And the sidewalks there, I think are about five feet above sea level. So flood protection resiliency, ground floor uses. How do you enter the building? How do you avoid nuisance flooding when it's not a 100 year storm? Those were all big aspects of the design of the ground floor or the pedestrian experience.

 

00;14;09;05 - 00;14;10;16

DP

So breakaway walls?

 

00;14;10;23 - 00;14;40;01

JZ

There are deployable flood barrier systems designed in. So the flood elevation is seven feet above the sidewalk. In the event of a massive tech, a hurricane Sandy kind of thing, they would deploy these flood barrier systems. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but they keep them in storage and they come out and they both enter the building, or they spread them around the building.

 

They can be self-supporting, and they have to be deployed in a certain amount of time because it's an emergency response system. So a big part of all the projects in this area.

 

00;14;40;06 - 00;14;44;17

DP

And what about zoning codes? You had mentioned you had a height issue.

 

00;14;44;19 - 00;15;27;12

JZ

Yeah. So the building got, I think, 65 additional feet for having the black box theater in it. That was one zoning aspect. You can see the cantilever here over the sidewalk. There was a sidewalk widening requirement in the zoning. So that made it obviously challenging. You've got 17 stories of residences coming down over a cantilever that allows the sidewalk to be wider at the base.

 

That was an interesting challenge. There's a little bit of parking in the building that came from the zoning. So obviously some structural challenges there as well. Whenever you're putting that many residences over the top of a parking garage. The second floor here that you see through the window, that is also designated art space in the zoning also requirement.

 

00;15;27;14 - 00;15;32;26

DP

So I don't do tall buildings. How many extra floors to 65ft get you?

 

00;15;32;29 - 00;15;59;27

JZ

I think it was basically five because the top floor is an amenity space, rooftop amenity, which was specifically permitted by the zoning bonus. I think it really made the building, the massing and the expression of these mid-range buildings is a little bit tricky. They're not as tall as they want to be to be a tall building, and they're not as low rise as they want to be to be a low rise building.

 

And I think the extra stories really help to give it a little bit more verticality. It's a better piece of architecture for it.

 

00;16;00;02 - 00;16;03;22

DP

So tell us about the building plan. You said there's a sharp corner.

 

00;16;03;24 - 00;16;47;10

JZ

Yeah, very acute corner. There's two lot lines and it has a corner lot. So right where you have your corner window with two exposures, there's a very acute corner and I can't remember the actual degrees. But anytime you have a building it's not just the corner that's a problem. In fact the corner isn't really a problem. You may not be able to put a sofa in that corner, but the corner per se is not a problem.

 

It's kind of a cool room to be inside of, but what it means is that the apartments on each of those two different streets are on different geometries. And so if you're going to have a rectilinear apartment on streets that are at such different geometries that all crashes into each other at the corner and at the corridors and at the courtyards, so it becomes very challenging to plan buildings that feel sensible and projects that have this kind of site.

 

00;16;47;12 - 00;16;59;02

DP

The narrow, irregular site of The Lively, demanded creative massing strategies to optimize space while meeting zoning requirements and maintaining contextual sensitivity.

 

00;16;59;05 - 00;18;01;13

JZ

From its get go. There was never any question it was going to be a contemporary building. As far as where we drew our inspiration from and what we were looking at, you know, I mentioned the difficulty, the massing for these midnight buildings. I think the gathering together, the window openings into these vertical slots helps to emphasize the verticality of the building.

 

We have this prominent gold portal for the black box theater and the building entrance, and that became an idea that we repeated throughout the facade frame, these moments on the facade. And I think generally we try to be pretty rigorous about how the facades are designed. Obviously you've got structural continuity, but then you've got what always happens in residential design is you've got living rooms that are one width and you've got bedrooms that are a different width.

 

And so a strictly rational grid is probably not going to serve you well for a residential building the way it does for a commercial building. So you're often trying to find a way to manage that. If your interest is fundamentally and having a kind of rigorous and rational facade, you're trying to find a way to manage those partitions hitting the wall.

 

00;18;01;13 - 00;18;19;27

JZ

And what does that mean? And at the same time, I think creating a facade with movement and interest and dynamism and that play on the facade, I think was always an important part. And you could say it is part of the emphasis on the arts and the theater and dance, but also obviously just an interest in creating something fresh.

 

00;18;19;29 - 00;18;28;25

DP

At One Java for the project prioritized views and thoughtful use of materials which elevated the design and ensured long term durability.

 

00;18;28;28 - 00;18;56;15

JI

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block, and on three sides on the north, the east and the south, we have streets. And then the west side is the waterfront. It's the East River. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape where they start up in the northwest corner, move around down West Street and then below, creating a view that opens up towards the water.

 

00;18;56;18 - 00;18;59;18

DP

So it's really all about the views, which it should be.

 

00;18;59;20 - 00;19;14;19

JI

Yes, it's something that it needs to be on the waterfront as well as it is about the views back into the neighborhood. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;19;14;22 - 00;19;24;13

DP

So tell us a little bit about the material choices. We've got a series of different materials and colors there. What were the decisions behind that?

 

00;19;24;15 - 00;20;16;04

JI

The building massing itself is broken up into five unique buildings, and out of those we have two towers that are precast, and those are the buildings on the waterfront. And then inland, there are three different buildings that range from ten stories to six stories. And those three buildings are brick, and that we really wanted to draw back from a lot of our inspirations in the Greenpoint community.

 

There's no shortage of brick precedents there. There's beautiful buildings such as The Astral, which is this queen in red brick terracotta building. There's Saint Anthony's Church, which is red brick and limestone trim. It's really beautiful, striking building. We looked towards kind of the history of the waterfront, those manufacturing industrial buildings, and used that precedent to define these brick colors, these three different brick buildings.

 

00;20;16;06 - 00;20;44;28

DP

So interestingly, the facades. So we've got the shorter or we've got the less tall architecture, which are brick buildings, and the facades are a series of what I'll call punctures with spandrel. It looks like spandrel brick in between each one of these vertically in between each one of the window openings. Correct? Yes. So how many studies did you guys end up doing to decide what these facades looked like?

 

00;20;45;00 - 00;21;23;17

JI

Everything kind of melded together. At some point, it's hard to break it down into a number because it was just this completely iterative process where we'd look at something, we'd make a model, we draw it, we'd look at it again, we'd make another model, we draw it. And this evolved from the concept, schematic designs all the way through to the construction document development.

 

This idea of the different brick details that actually came from wanting to streamline the project. So we use the same details on each of the brick buildings, but we remix them in each one. We use them in a different order to create a different identity for each of these.

 

00;21;23;19 - 00;21;40;29

DP

I think what's really interesting about these facades too, so you separate them facades into squares or rectangles, and then they have this very well. It looks subtle in elevation from far away, but it's actually a very large construction joint in between each one of these square rectangular panels. Correct?

 

00;21;41;02 - 00;21;56;02

JI

Yes. We use that construction joint and we overemphasize it. We use this double soldier coursing reveal tool as a way to further break up the massing and kind of imply this subdivisions within the buildings.

 

00;21;56;05 - 00;21;59;01

DP

And how deep is that, is that one brick thickness?

 

00;21;59;04 - 00;22;00;20

JI

It's two inches.

 

00;22;00;20 - 00;22;11;11

DP

Two inches. It's nice because when you look at the facade, I mean, it looks quite homogenous. But if you look at it a little bit more deeply, it's separated into these squares and rectangles. It's very pretty.

 

00;22;11;16 - 00;22;30;20

JI

Yeah. That's the effect that we really want to go for in terms of how this fits into the fabric of Greenpoint. We like the idea of there being this large scale massing that breaks down and continues to break down the closer you get, and it relates to more of your scale relative to the way that you're viewing it.

 

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;52;26

DP

You know, as an aside, what's really pretty, the red brick that you guys use there, there are a lot of lighter bricks in that facade, and so it makes it look almost pink in color, but you get up close to it and you can see a lot of variations in these colors in the red colored brick, a lot of like I'll call it value, but it's light and dark red brick.

 

00;22;52;29 - 00;23;57;04

JI

For that facade we're using a blended brick, and we wanted that to echo some of the red brick buildings that you already see on West Street, on the waterfront. That was kind of our launching point for coming up with this brick palette. We knew that there was going to be a red brick building. We knew that it was going to be relative to those warehouses.

 

And then the other two bricks were kind of an offshoot that based on how we wanted to frame this story of the building as you move around the site. So to the north, there's a lighter brick. It's something that we see as a little more modern. We try to keep the tones of the brick and mortar and the sills and other materials a little more homogenous.

 

And then on the flip side of that, on the southern street of the building, Java Street, we wanted to use something with a bit more variation. We wanted a higher contrast between the ground and the brick, a higher variability within the bricks. And that's something that we saw as a little more nostalgic to some of those worker housings and the smaller buildings that you begin to see as you move more inland.

 

00;23;57;07 - 00;24;41;16

DP

These mixed use projects demonstrate how brick and thoughtful architectural design can serve as a bridge between the past and future. By blending functionality with design, each project contributes to its community while addressing practical and esthetic goals.

 

Jeremy, John and Vincenet emphasize the importance of collaboration, innovation, and a deep understanding of site context in achieving these outcomes. Ultimately, these developments showcase how mixed use projects can create vibrant, connected urban environments, enriching neighborhoods through thoughtful integration of diverse uses and attention to detail in design and execution.

 

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;18

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;38;03

Sussan Lari (SL)

The house had character. Typically, Tudor style houses from outside are just stunningly gorgeous piece of structure. And when you go in, it's just sad. And that is not going to happen with my approach to design, because I like the style of Tudor and I don't like the style of sad inside spaces. So it's bright and happy and is open, is spacious. You know, lots of windows.

 

00;00;38;06 - 00;02;41;18

DP

In this special series we’re unlocking some of the most powerful conversations we've had so far. We're connecting the dots, revealing hidden gems and unearthing insights that might have slipped by. All to spark your next big idea with brick. Whether you're looking for fresh inspiration or innovative solutions, this series is designed to fuel your creativity. So let's dive in.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Today we explore Tudor style homes with insights from Peter VanderPoel, of VanderPoel Architecture, who designed the geometrically inspired Guildford Court in McLean, Virginia, and Sussan Lari of Sussan Lari Architect PC, who transformed the Tudor style Henhawk house in Long Island, New York. Tudor architecture is a style of British design that emerged between 1485 and 1558, blending decorative Renaissance elements with the Gothic tradition. Recognized for its steeply pitched roofs, half timbered facades, ornate brickwork, and distinctive chimney treatments.

 

Tudor buildings often feature large, grouped windows and intricate details. While exteriors highlight rich textures and patterns, interiors are known for wood paneled walls and plasterwork ceilings, creating a blend of medieval charm and early Renaissance sophistication. In this bonus episode we’ll highlight various aspects of Peter and Sussan's project, including the architectural design process, construction challenges, and the thoughtful use of brickwork to create Tudor style homes that bridge tradition and modernity.

 

Both projects reflect a deep respect for tradition while incorporating innovative design solutions. Peter VanderPoel’s Guildford Court responded to the steep, angular site with a unique three axis geometry inspired by the hexagonal forms of Frank Lloyd Wright's Hanna house.

 

00;02;41;21 - 00;04;28;05

Peter VanderPoel (PV)

The lot as it looks in plan, in the site plan, it kind of looks like the state of Georgia and the Atlantic coast of Georgia was just a little bit to the northeast of Florida is what's on the cul de sac. So there's a very small entrance circle for the cul de sac, very small entrance onto the site, and then very steep as it goes up in the back.

 

And then these two angles that almost describe 60 degrees from the two property lines that go away from the cul de sac. And so my first inclination was, well, that's almost 60 degrees. And so a hexagonal plan would work on a lot like that. So then I started looking at precedents for that. I know Frank Lloyd Wright had done the Hanna house in California.

 

It was based on the hexagon. He had done a whole series of projects based on geometry. So I had looked at those, but it was through that less hexagonal forms and more towards three axes rather than we normally think of two axes that x and y. But this now has these 120 degree rotation that with a hexagon you have three axes that are involved in describing that geometry.

 

And that was essentially the same geometry we had on that site. So that became the basis for the design. And then with three geometries, we've got three programmatic elements of getting the cars on and off the semipublic and then the private. And then we also have this dramatic rise in height. So we could also do the same thing vertically.

 

We have the garage at the lowest level so the cars can get on easily. The semipublic now faces the street on this very narrow frontage, and then the private is up highest and essentially resting on top of the semipublic block and runs back. But because the site is so steep, it touches ground. It's a grade at the back of the property, even though it's sitting on top of the lower level at the front.

 

00;04;28;07 - 00;04;34;24

DP

The design uses distinct programmatic zones, private semipublic and garage spaces.

 

00;04;34;26 - 00;06;57;14

PV

Well, one is getting the cars on and off the lot. They can't, just the nature of cars, they can't be going up and down hill. So we need to get them on the shortest route and the lowest route, so that if you think about the site as a state of Georgia, the Florida border line was where the cars came in. The semipublic face, the cul de sac.

 

It addressed through there. And then we had stairs going up this series of stones, because one of the concerns was, that's a long way up to get to that first floor, just because it's so steep. So we have these stones on the site that are shifted. So you're sort of walking across these lily pads and then a diagonal that goes up and then a set of stairs.

 

So there's a variety of experiences moving towards the front of the house. We also have the office portion now is right inside the front door. So if someone in the house decides to set up office there, they have a client come by. They don't have to go into the main house, just in and out the front door, take care of business and then from there a few more steps go into the main house.

 

So that opens up and a very large open space. There's the fireplace, dining, living, kitchen are all in that area. And then behind the kitchen is sort of the pool deck area for showers and changing and so on. And then there's a large circular stair that's the pin. So if you think about the semipublic and the private, they splay out at 120 degrees.

 

And the stairway is the pin that holds us together to do that rotation. So there's a very large grand sculptural stair up to the second level, and it comes up between the master bedroom and the additional bedrooms, so that when you move towards the cul de sac, you're now in the master bedroom suite that is like this big diving board looking over.

 

It's a tremendous site, as I said, was very challenging. But being in that master bedroom and looking out over the trees away from the site, it's a dramatic view going the other direction there. The other bedrooms that I said eventually gets back to grade because it gets so steep in the back and then there's also the stair continues down.

 

So there's a family room in the basement, a large television there as well. And then on the other end we have that same rotation with the garage, and that's a much more modest stair coming from the garage into that living space. But it's based on those three axes and those two hinges to turn it on to the site, both in plan and in section.

 

00;06;57;16 - 00;07;19;03

DP

These zones are further emphasized through the vertical layering of the building, rising with his site's natural topography. In contrast, Sussan Lari's Henhawk House expanded a 40 100 square foot Tudor home into a 13,300 square foot estate. While maintaining the scale and charm of the original architecture.

 

00;07;19;05 - 00;07;38;15

SL

Location is really a fantastic location. The tree lined boulevard type street in Long Island. The house itself was Tudor style brick. Relatively small zoning wise, were allowed to build close to 8000ft², and the existing house was close to 4400ft².

 

00;07;38;16 - 00;07;40;04

DP

So there's an FAR there.

 

00;07;40;07 - 00;08;08;02

SL

Yes, yes. Everything we do is full force zoning under rules. And that's kind of what I've learned them really well. As much as can be played with. We have learned at all. But the house had character by the house was dim like, typically Tudor style houses from outside are just stunningly gorgeous piece of structure. And when you go in it's just sad, dark.

 

00;08;08;05 - 00;08;13;18

DP

I love the way you describe that. It's so true. So many tutors really feel that way. Absolutely.

 

00;08;13;20 - 00;08;49;05

SL

You know, in a way it gives this kind of fear of people to the Tudor because they think Tudor supposed to be dark interior and that is not going to happen with my approach to design, because I like the style of Tudor, and I don't like the style of sad inside spaces. So it's bright and happy and is open, is spacious, you know, lots of windows.

 

And in this particular case, the expansion of the house was extensive because I needed to keep a chimney.

 

00;08;49;11 - 00;08;51;21

DP

Was this a functional chimney or boiler flues?

 

00;08;51;21 - 00;09;10;09

SL

Yes. Function to me. And then we wanted to keep a fireplace. We wanted to keep a chimney and they wanted to keep the ceiling has to work ceiling of a dining room. So I said, okay, we keep all those tree, but we get rid of everything.

 

00;09;10;12 - 00;09;25;03

DP

Her design emphasized the playfulness of the Tudor esthetic, with its steeply pitched roofs, half timbered facades and intricate brickwork, all modernized with a bright and open interior that reflects contemporary living.

 

00;09;25;06 - 00;10;01;28

SL

The idea become into doing an L-shape design and because it was kind of long L-shaped, it gives me the opportunity to create the design, as there are certain components of structures together, section by section, with the playfulness of the roof, which is important for Tudor style and also different height, and also introduction of stucco and introduction of wood paneling, framing stuccos and brick, and also playfulness of a brick.

 

00;10;02;01 - 00;10;22;28

DP

Brick played a pivotal role in both projects, not only for its durability and timelessness, but also as a design tool to express texture and detail. At Guildford Court, dark brick veneer was used for the semipublic zone, creating a visual contrast and grounding the structure within its suburban context.

 

00;10;23;00 - 00;10;53;28

PV

There's fiber cement boards for the bedroom space, and then the semipublic was, a brick, and then the garage was, I think there's a wood on there. So we have a couple different faces. There's a brick facade for the semipublic. I think there's some brick as well on the garage, and we also brought some of the brick inside in the living spaces.

 

We wanted to have a variety of materials to represent because everything's now being divided into threes with the garage, semipublic, private spaces.

 

00;10;54;01 - 00;11;00;14

DP

So tell me a little bit about why you guys chose to use brick, in particular, the dark brick.

 

00;11;00;16 - 00;11;16;21

PV

The dark brick. That was not my selection. I did not select the colors on that element, but it would also be contrasting. You could see the dramatic change in color because as I said, it's about these three elements. And so they read differently every way you cut it.

 

00;11;16;21 - 00;11;23;19

DP

It, you know, would seem to me that you chose to use brick as a differentiated design element, right? Right.

 

00;11;23;21 - 00;11;34;07

PV

It's also very common in this part of the country. In an old town, Virginia, and just all up and down the East Coast. Brick was the way to do durable construction and still is.

 

00;11;34;09 - 00;11;38;10

DP

Are there any houses around this one that are masonry as well?

 

00;11;38;14 - 00;11;57;13

PV

Yes. So the houses that were there in the neighboring lots, most of them were split level with a lower with brick on the first floor and siding on the second floor. The houses that have come in their place, the two I can think of are stucco, but there's a lot of brick in the neighborhood.

 

00;11;57;15 - 00;12;07;19

DP

The brick was also introduced in interior spaces such as the fireplace surround, blending the exterior and interior seamlessly.

 

00;12;07;21 - 00;12;23;02

PV

There's brick for the fireplace surround, which is the left photograph there. And there were also two trees on the site where we ended up pulling those up, but the contractor had those milled and used them for the trim. The wood that's above the fireplace there is from those trees.

 

00;12;23;09 - 00;12;24;22

DP

Do you remember the species?

 

00;12;24;24 - 00;12;27;25

PV

My recollection will be black locust, but I'm not sure.

 

00;12;27;28 - 00;12;40;15

DP

I was going to ask you what some of the historical precedents were for the, for the architecture, but clearly were into much more modern architecture here. However, as you said, we see brick in the area.

 

00;12;40;17 - 00;12;45;17

PV

Yeah. There's brick. The material is common in Northern Virginia, the building forms.

 

00;12;45;25 - 00;12;47;11

DP

Yeah. I was going to say we got gables here.

 

00;12;47;11 - 00;12;54;29

PV

Yeah, that's pretty common as well. So the basis of it is traditional, but the implementation has become modern.

 

00;12;55;02 - 00;13;06;04

DP

And tell me a little bit, what I call this modern Tudor aesthetic. Where did that come from? And I know it's not modern Tudor, but describe that for our listeners.

 

00;13;06;06 - 00;13;15;24

PV

So from this view, the division of the fiber cement is accomplished with these vertical elements that come proud of the exterior finish.

 

00;13;15;27 - 00;13;21;23

DP

Okay. So they're not set back into the fiber cement. They're brashly proud. So it's applied.

 

00;13;21;27 - 00;13;37;08

PV

Yeah. And so that could be considered a reference. It was not the intention but to have timber that was common with timber houses. Would use expressed wood materials and then with stucco in between those. And then the angles for the roofs are fairly standard.

 

00;13;37;14 - 00;13;38;03

DP

Are those 12 12? Tudor style?

 

00;13;38;03 - 00;13;45;07

PV

Yes they are. The contractor ended up putting living space up there as well. So we made good use of that space.

 

00;13;45;07 - 00;13;59;19

DP

Of course, for Henhawk House, brick became a canvas for creativity. The facade features herringbone patterns, soldier courses and diagonal layouts, adding richness and depth to the design.

 

00;13;59;21 - 00;14;12;28

SL

I think we were good in accomplishing that because it has its playfulness and although is relatively large but it is not overwhelmingly massive.

 

00;14;13;00 - 00;14;14;15

DP

I'd say it's well scaled.

 

00;14;14;17 - 00;15;07;29

SL

It is well scaled, right? And then at the end, we realized that there's no way we could match the old brick. So I know Glen-Gery very well, because if I ever have done any brickwork has been Glen-Gery and why? Because the quality of the material and I get service. So I am fussy enough to worry about the size and also worry about the color of the grout.

 

And I want to have the samples of it made before I even decide what color brick. So a rep does that service for us and do the color we provide the color and tell what brick. And between those is what I chose and eventually and I have are some Mason that are Italian and five brothers and one better than the other.

 

They're local to local and they do a magnificent job. And also they built a good size.

 

00;15;08;01 - 00;15;09;10

DP

They did a mock up?

 

00;15;09;14 - 00;15;51;18

SL

Absolutely. And and one other thing that I was almost kind of experimenting, this project was that I love the style of Tudor on the outside. I don't like that inside. So that was one issue. Second issue. I like the playfulness of how we could create interesting textures and playfulness of the laying of the brick, but Tudor would allow me to do that because we are compartmentalizing pieces here there, and that other styles don't do that.

 

And then that herringbone style has to be compartmentalize, right?

 

00;15;51;21 - 00;15;53;18

DP

In between the boards, I think at one.

 

00;15;53;18 -00;16;40;12

SL

Between the boards would work. We shouldn't do too much of it because too much of an accessory. Not good. So it allowed me to experiment and do detailed work. And also choosing of the color of the brick and the color of the stucco and the freedom I had in detailing and designing and working also with the roof and with the roofer - I’m friend with the roofer, I'm friend with the Mason man, I’m friend and and to make sure that we get eventually a beautifully detailed house and outside. And then when it come to the inside, our life is modern.

 

We are living in this time. Our space should be representing our era.

 

00;16;40;15 - 00;16;43;00

DP

Did you guys use any brick on the interior?

 

00;16;43;03 - 00;16;45;09

SL

Not on this project.

 

00;16;45;11 - 00;16;53;01

DP

What were some of the historical precedents? We were talking about details. Were there any local buildings that were Tudors? Was this the only?

 

00;16;53;01 - 00;16;59;08

SL

Yes, actually, no. No, it's not in this particular street. There are many other brick buildings.

 

00;16;59;10 - 00;17;27;18

DP

Both architects face unique challenges, but found creative solutions to overcome them. In navigating the steep and irregular site of Guildford Court, the unique three axis geometry and distinct programmatic zones brought forth a familiar concept for Peter, known as polyrhythms. The result is a home that harmonizes with its environment while offering dramatic views and a clear organization of space.

 

00;17;27;20 - 0;18;27;00

PV

Something else we hadn't discussed that I used to play the drums, still do. Yeah, and for a long time I used to play, actually in a bagpipe band. More sophisticated than you think. But, so rhythm is something that I've been dealing with since I was ten years old. And one thing that came up is what called polyrhythms, where you have overlapping rhythms, you take two rhythms that may not be so interesting on their own, but when they're overlaid with each other, then it creates something more interesting than either of them were to begin with.

 

And that's how I view this project, that this overlay, the reason why that window angle is there on the corner is because the geometry of the private portion is been thrust through the semipublic. And so there's an angle that goes through, the chimney was rotated along that as well. And the contractor turned that back. But it was that slot that pushed through that mirrors the same axis that the private portion is on.

 

00;18;27;02 - 00;18;46;17

DP

For Henhawk House, Sussan preserved key elements of the original structure, such as a chimney and a decorative dining room ceiling, while designing a new L-shaped layout. This approach allowed her to integrate traditional and modern elements, creating a home that feels both expansive and intimate.

 

00;18;46;19 - 00;18;54;15

SL

The chimney that I wanted to keep, which was right above the fireplace, was outside of skyline exposure.

 

00;18;54;17 - 00;18;57;03

DP

Okay, there was a height restriction?

 

00;18;57;06 - 00;20;44;08

SL

Yes, we always have height restriction in this case, I said, this is an existing building. This is not a new house. This is a renovation of an existing house. So I'm allowed to keep the chimney. And that chimney, we end up to really change the inside of the chimney on the outside of the chimney, and all the bricks and everything, but we kept the height.

 

Now, the zoning building going to hear that. Fortunately, we had no issue at the setback because we had plenty of space from the front of the house in King's Point to setback requirement for front yard is 60ft and we had way more than 60ft. It was deep enough that I was able to create a parking courtyard in front of the house and the garage.

 

We have one two car garage on the upper level and then three car garage on the lowest level. The garage is actually coming further out from the front of the house, but I don't think we had any other zoning issues. But one other feature of the house that I thought, it's kind of important. As I was driving around and see all these Tudor houses, Tudor is not a box, Tudor is never a box. Tudor expand. And that is one beautiful feature of when it's all expand. We had a lot of width, plenty of available. The size of the property was very large and we had enough room on the site, and I thought that if I could add an extra width to the house, will be introducing a brick wall, extending from the garage, and that will be the access from the front of the house to the garden.

 

00;20;44;10 - 00;20;47;26

DP

And then you did a series of small windows along the garage, correct?

 

00;20;48;02 - 00;21;06;04

SL

Yes, because a simple wall without any detail in the front elevation was not a good idea. If I can introduce fenestration into the wall and breaking it, because this is again the style of Tudor.

 

00;21;06;07 - 00;21;11;12

DP

Did you guys get to do any new details on this project that you hadn't done in the past?

 

00;21;11;14 - 00;21;22;06

SL

Yes, that brick herringbone is new. The playfulness of the brick above the entrance hall in the front and back, front and back are identical in what they represent.

 

00;21;22;09 - 00;22;29;09

DP

Reflecting on the design and construction of each home, both projects skillfully balance historical charm and modern functionality, demonstrating how this iconic style can be adapted to meet contemporary needs while maintaining its traditional character. Whether through Peter's innovative use of geometric axes and dark brick to articulate spaces, or Sussan's playful incorporation of brick patterns, timber framed stucco, and steep gabled roofs, both projects celebrate the rich textures and distinctive elements that define Tudor architecture, such as intricate brickwork, bold roof lines, and striking chimneys.

 

Ultimately, these projects underscore the power of Tudor design to bridge past and present, offering timeless esthetics alongside modern livability. Through their thoughtful interpretations, Peter and Sussan highlight how this historic style continues to inspire and evolve, creating homes that are as functional as they are beautiful.

 

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;34;05

Michelle Todd (MT)

So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade. It was a beautiful building of brick in the front and the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. We wind up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just a renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild.

 

00;00;34;07 - 00;01;01;23

DP

This is my guest, Michelle Todd. I'll share more about her shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault. We highlight Michelle's restoration project at 102 Bainbridge Street in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. The Bainbridge Street renovation project is located in the Stuyvesant Heights Historic District. It was built within a row of buildings, which is a long group of houses planned to form seven freestanding architectural units.

 

00;01;01;28 - 00;03;46;13

DP

102 is situated at the end of the row. It's a modified Spanish residential style home with a triple arched loggia made of red brick laid in Flemish pond. The roof parapet rises at the center in an arch supported on concave shoulders. The restoration was begun to repair a buckling roof parapet, deteriorated walls, damaged pediment and cracking stucco facade.

 

Renovation work was extensive and a decision was made early not to replace the stucco, but rather leave and repair the natural brick masonry. The building scope also changed during construction from an exterior renovation to demolition and reconstruction due to construction material issues. Structural engineers were also consulted to create a necessary and unique wall construction method. The existing roof skylights, roof hatch and areas of limestone and bluestone were also repaired.

 

The project was also recently awarded the 2023 Lucy G. Moses New York Landmark Conservancy Award. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Michelle Todd is an architect and principal of M.Todd Architects in Bedford-Stuyvesant, New York. Michelle has a master of science from Columbia University in architecture and urban design. She also studied at the École des Beaux-Arts in France.

 

Michelle grew up in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood in the 1970s. She knew she wanted to be an architect by the age of ten. Her interests today focus on urban planning and socially responsive architecture. After a brief stint at Perkins Eastman, she opened her own firm in 2008. Since then, she's worked for small and large corporations such as Snapple, the New York City Agency Office of Emergency Management, as well as private residential projects.

 

Her studio in Brooklyn, New York, focuses on historic renovations and additions, collaborating directly with clients and working closely with the general contractor during construction. Michelle's worked on Landmark designated buildings, bakeries, restaurants, schools and renovation projects. She's an adjunct professor at the New York City CUNY College and a licensed architect in New York State and Maryland. She's certified as a consultant with the International Institute of Building Enclosures, and Living Future accredited with the International Living Future Institute.

 

Welcome, Michelle. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about M.Todd Architects in Brooklyn. So where in Bed-Stuy are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long have you been around? And tell us a little more about project types.

 

00;03;46;16 - 00;04;19;19

MT

The firm is in the heart of Bedford-Stuyvesant on the whole Z Street. Been around since 2008 was almost 15 years as of March of this year, 2024. And basically the firm is small, is about three people, we specialize specifically in historical preservation, as well as residential private editions, commercial projects such as restaurants, bake houses and also schools. So basically you have a realm of achievement in different areas, which is commercial, residential and also business.

 

00;04;19;21 - 00;04;26;09

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been practicing architecture and what's your role in the office as principal?

 

00;04;26;12 - 00;05;00;18

MT

I've been practicing architecture since 2008, when I received my license. However, I do have decades of experience before then in working at previous larger offices, in smaller offices to gain the experience I needed. Because, as you know, as an architect, you have to have at least three years working first in the field and then afterwards you're able to take the examination.

 

So once I did that, then just made initiative to just start my own practice. And basically I am the principal where I do a lot of marketing as well as clients in order to obtain business.

 

00;05;00;20 - 00;05;02;15

DP

And you said you have some employees?

 

00;05;02;21 - 00;05;13;16

MT

I do have employees. They're basically consultants. So basically I have a expediter. I have a drafts person. I have also my consultants, such as structural engineer, mechanical engineers.

 

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;21;08

DP

That's interesting. So you have an expediter that you guys use. And is that to make the process working with the city a little easier?

 

00;05;21;11 - 00;05;33;17

MT

It really does make it easier because as a person with a small firm, your hands are in everything. So to have somebody to be on the outside, to be able to do that type of work is appreciative and helpful.

 

00;05;33;19 - 00;05;46;05

DP

That's really cool. I mean, just as an aside, I hadn't really thought about the need for an expediter in a firm like that, but that makes perfect sense. So let's dig in here and talk about the home. How did your office get the project?

 

00;05;46;07 - 00;06;08;01

MT

I received the project in regards to as a dear friend, where I'm on the New York City Landmark Committee for Bedford-Stuyvesant specifically, and Community Board three, and he was a good member, Fred Jones, rest in peace. He had a friend who was in need of architectural services, so he recommended me to the client, which is the richest family, about this project.

 

00;06;08;03 - 00;06;10;01

DP

So you didn't know the clients before you got the job?

 

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;18;04

MT

I didn't know the clients. It was a friend of a friend, and he just talked highly about me and said that you should work with me in regards to this project.

 

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;24;26

DP

So give us a little history about the location. And was I correct in stating that the unit is an end unit?

 

00;06;24;29 - 00;07;08;00

MT

It is. It's in the beautiful, original, historic district of Bedford-Stuyvesant, which is known as Stuyvesant Heights, and it was established as a landmark district in 1971. So this set of buildings, it's literally between Stuyvesant and Lewis on Bainbridge. There's about 14 series of the buildings, and it's at the end row and there are Spanish style Renaissance buildings. That was created by W.f. McCarthy, who was an architect back in 1919.

 

And the unique thing about these buildings is that it's the only buildings I've ever been in with it has two staircases inside where there's one in the back and one in the front. So I guess back in those days they would have the servants come through the back and then the owners come through the front.

 

00;07;08;03 - 00;07;10;14

DP

Roughly, what's the square footage of the project?

 

00;07;10;16 - 00;07;13;09

MT

It's about 1200 square feet.

 

00;07;13;11 - 00;07;17;05

DP

And what was the scope and the programmatic requirements from the owner?

 

00;07;17;07 - 00;10;08;12

MT

Well, the original scope and program was that it was in terrible need in regards to the existing structure, the parapet was buckling. So on the north facade as well as the south and west facades, it was just crumbling. They were scared that it was going to fall down in some way. So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade.

 

But then as we went along, we started to think also, it was a beautiful building of brick in the front. And the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. Once we started to do the renovation was like, you know, we don't really need the stucco. It really looks beautiful with the brick itself. So we started to expose all the stucco, and by exposing all the stucco, we wound up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just the renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild. So we found out the history, and that was the nice thing about it. We really had to go back in the history of it. This is where the assistance of the expediter really came into play, because basically we found out that back in 1956, the building itself had a permit to actually do a addition because all of these beautiful houses.

 

What makes them so special in this neighborhood, too, is that they have their own private driveway, which many people don't have in that area. And also they have a garage. But then also on the second floor of each of these houses, they have a beautiful sunroom with a balcony. The person who owned the property at 102 Bainbridge, he basically wanted to make an addition.

 

So he eliminated that balcony and extended the whole square footage of the building so it can be enclosed. When we removed the stucco, we found out that instead of it masonry, he had it wood. So that was back in 1956. So we had to go back all the way to the building department to find out what the original drawings were, which we found out which were these beautiful blueprint drawings that you don't see anymore.

 

And it said that year they were legally supposed to have an addition, but it was supposed to be made out of brick, not wood. So that's where the whole expedition kind of came in. I had to go back to New York City building department, as well as the landmarks, because everyone was like shocked that it was wood versus masonry.

 

And we basically had to do a whole reconstruction. And that's where I guess the product of Glen-Gery came into play, because what happened to you is that on the back of the facade, all the bricks in the building weren't the same. The bricks in the front of the building were made out of Beldon, and it was a different type of color scheme.

 

But then when we removed the stucco in the back, it was a beautiful match with the Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert Plantation Middle Plantation, 52DD. It was a perfect match to it. Again, we had to go back to landmarks to make sure that they were approve of that brick to match what was in the rear facade that was being used.

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;10;17;12

DP

So what's interesting about the photographs that you sent is that the building looks as though some of these walls were completely taken down.

 

00;10;17;18 - 00;10;59;01

MT

It was because due to the fact it was stucco and I'm an architect that's very conscious about the environment. And stucco is something I concrete and it adds to the carbon footprint. So the whole idea was that this project specifically was to eliminate that process in really being more progressive and more enhancing to the environment. So that's why we didn't use stucco.

 

We wanted to just expose the beautiful masonry itself. And therefore, by eliminating the stucco, we saw the building was in need of much deeper repair than we expected. That was the thing, because in 1956 you figured that the contractors would be honest and they would do what they were supposed to do. But he wasn’t. And therefore that made this more of an adventure to get it right.

 

00;10;59;03 - 00;11;05;27

DP

So I would imagine there are a number of other buildings on that block that were also made of wood, that the interior wall construction. Is that correct?

 

00;11;06;00 - 00;11;44;10

MT

I don't know. That's the whole thing. What happened is, what makes this special is that this is the only house that has the addition. That's it. Everybody else has the sunroom. So this once in particular you thought that you would put it in masonry, but it's in it makes sense. First landmarks had to come and see it.

 

They were, like, shocked. Then I received the structural engineer, which was SOMA Engineering Firm, which is a great engineering firm. They came, they were shocked. The construction company that we work with, Naim Construction, all of us was basically shocked that this was behind the stucco because it looked like everything was fine. But when exposed, that's when we all gathered together as a team to like how we can resolve this.

 

00;11;44;16 - 00;11;52;22

DP

Interesting. Let's back up and talk a little bit about the plan of the building. I would assume it's just a large rectangle, two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;52;24 - 00;11;54;23

MT

Exactly. It was a two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;55;00 - 00;11;59;29

DP

And had you been contracted to design the interiors as well?

 

00;12;00;04 - 00;12;20;18

MT

I have for later date because what happens is based on the fact that now the photographs that you have here show of what it was existing. We went back to the premise of what it was back in 1919 when the solarium had these beautiful corner windows. So the design now is encompassing back the original style of that format.

 

00;12;20;20 - 00;12;25;05

DP

So you had to work with the city. How long did that process take?

 

00;12;25;08 - 00;12;53;21

MT

This is how it began. The project began in May 2020, during the pandemic. Then we actually had approval to start construction in April of 2021. Then all of these items, open issues about the facade not being what it was, and reconstruction, we basically spent about two years after that, and it was completed around October 20, 23. So it was back and forth with New York Landmarks as well as New York City Building Department.

 

00;12;53;27 - 00;12;55;09

DP

And the client had somewhere to live.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;08;12

MT

He lived on the first floor. So the top floor. It was a blessing that he was able to live on the first floor while all this construction was going on. And in the top floor, basically, he had tenants, but then they moved out. When this major construction of us doing the rebuild.

 

00;13;08;15 - 00;13;09;07

DP

A lot of noise.

 

00;13;09;13 - 00;13;11;04

MT

It was a lot of noise.

 

00;13;11;04 - 00;13;11;23

DP

Very dusty.

 

00;13;11;24 - 00;13;15;00

MT

But it was fun.

 

00;13;15;02 - 00;13;24;10

DP

That's great. I'm interested as an architect about the drawings that you created in the very beginning. Did you work in 3D or just 2D?

 

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;33;28

MT

I worked in 2D, but then afterwards, when we started to look at what this condition that was taking place in the rear, I started looking at it in 3D and how it would be.

 

00;13;34;05 - 00;13;38;05

DP

And did you have to present drawings to a historic commission?

 

00;13;38;07 - 00;13;47;14

MT

Yes, we present it to Brian Blazak, is one of the senior preservationists on in New York City Landmarks. We had to show the drawings of what we planned to do.

 

00;13;47;16 - 00;13;48;26

DP

Exterior elevations?

 

00;13;49;03 - 00;13;50;24

MT

Yeah, exterior elevations.

 

00;13;50;26 - 00;13;58;25

DP

So again, backing up a little bit, you removed the stucco on one facade and replaced masonry on another. Is that correct?

 

00;13;58;28 - 00;14;25;03

MT

It's on the same facade. What happens is, is that the entire facade was placed in stucco. But then when we looked at the south elevation, so the windows were there, but it was infilled with wood. And that's what was shocking to everybody because basically it was really dilapidated and it also kind of made sense for the owner later on because he said his tenants always felt cold in that part of the room.

 

And it made sense because it was the wood and that masonry, there was no insulation whatsoever.

 

00;14;25;06 - 00;14;30;17

DP

So tell us a little bit about the new wall system that you guys had to create because of that condition.

 

00;14;30;19 - 00;15;17;03

MT

So the new wall system was still going back to what was historically done in regards to the rear facade was made out of three widths of brick, which basically is like three layers. And what we had to do is that we had to abide by what the actual, once we removed the stucco, what the actual pattern was, because it was a common bond, because as I stated in the beginning, the pattern in the front of the house was completely different than the pattern in the back of the house.

 

So once we established that, then we wanted to really make it structurally sound and we incorporated steel within the wall. So basically you have the three whiffs of brick on the outside, then you have the steel. It was stainless steel that made sure it was resource sustainably. And then we have our insulation and then our finishes in the inside.

 

00;15;17;06 - 00;15;26;25

DP

So the project sounds really interesting. Did you guys learn anything new about construction technologies or about building typologies in working on this project?

 

00;15;26;27 - 00;15;58;06

MT

Yes, the use of materials because again, was very selective about which materials we're going to use because since this building was already historically landmarked since 1919, we wanted to make sure that it lasts for another 100 years. So was very selective on who the steel came from, where the insulation came from, where the bricks came from. All of these were really mindful things and I think moving forward with other projects, I continue doing that, making sure that they are friendly to the planet as well as to the people who are going to live and utilize the buildings.

 

00;15;58;08 - 00;16;04;18

DP

So did the client bring the general contractor to the project or did you interview a number of contractors?

 

00;16;04;20 - 00;16;10;09

MT

We did interview a number of contractors, but then the client himself selected Naim Construction for it.

 

00;16;10;12 - 00;16;15;19

DP

And clearly there's a lot of masonry work. Did you have any challenges finding a good mason?

 

00;16;15;21 - 00;16;45;27

MT

Oh no. He has very excellent masons and they were very accommodating because we had to go back and forth with New York City Landmarks when we were selecting the bricks where we had to actually do a sample of the wall where the wood infill was of how the brick was going to look. So one of his masons, George, was really who's one of the oldest ones there.

 

It has most experience. He was very patient. We went on the scaffolding and it was a really cold day, but we did the whole mock up and it came out beautiful. And therefore Landmark said, Yes, go with it.

 

00;16;45;29 - 00;16;49;16

DP

So you did the mock up and the city came out and took a look at it?

 

00;16;49;19 - 00;16;56;05

MT

No, we took photographs and then afterwards they were like, because it was cold.

 

00;16;56;07 - 00;17;05;24

DP

So the city doesn't like to go out on cold days? I think we’ll leave that in there. That's good. So I assume the client's living there now?

 

00;17;06;02 - 00;17;09;17

MT

He is. He's living in the bottom floor still, but he's happy with the work.

 

00;17;09;20 - 00;17;12;25

DP

So is it complete? And he has a tenant on the second floor?

 

00;17;13;00 - 00;17;22;21

MT

He doesn't have a tenant on the second floor. And it's not quite complete yet because now we're just waiting for the historical windows to come in. So that is the last crème de la crème.

 

00;17;22;23 - 00;17;24;27

DP

And who is the manufacturer of the windows?

 

00;17;25;03 - 00;17;36;10

MT

It is Norwood Manufacturers, a Canadian company. And again, it was very selective on them because the way they use and harvest wood in order to make the windows, we're really mindful about that.

 

00;17;36;17 - 00;17;39;23

DP

Interesting. Are they double glazed? Triple glazed?

 

00;17;39;25 - 00;17;49;03

MT

They're triple glazed, low e glass index and they're quite beautiful. They're the original to what was there before of the windows? So they're replicating those.

 

00;17;49;05 - 00;17;57;00

DP

So I'm curious in terms of color, you were able to find a brick that you were happy with. You said that matched on the exterior.

 

00;17;57;02 - 00;18;12;16

MT

The contractor has suggested he was like, this will be a perfect break. I did research and was a Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert 52 DD Middle Plantation. That was the one that was selected. And when we put it in place, it was perfect to what was there from 1919.

 

00;18;12;22 - 00;18;15;27

DP

So do all these row homes, they all must look the same?

 

00;18;16;02 - 00;18;45;16

MT

They basically all look the same. And the other fascinating thing too, with the project, when we were doing the demo for the wood infield, all the bricks, I learned this like recently from my practice that the bricks that we were removing, that were there all had the names of the brick companies on there. And you don't see that anymore in which they were actually etched into the brick.

 

I was like, Wow, It's like, fascinating. So it was like an archeological project in the same way of doing something better for the building for another hundred years.

 

00;18;45;19 - 00;18;52;24

DP

So when you guys put these new windows in, what about the color? Can you do whatever color you want or the colors have to match the other homes.

 

00;18;52;26 - 00;18;57;13

MT

The colors have to match. It is going to be made out of wood, but they're going to be of a white finish.

 

00;18;57;16 - 00;19;00;10

DP

And they have to be traditional in style to match the others.

 

00;19;00;16 - 00;19;01;06

MT

Exactly.

 

00;19;01;06 - 00;19;11;17

DP

Interesting. So, Michelle, you've been an architect for some time. Based on what you know today about being an architect, you have any words of advice for your younger self or maybe architects coming up in the ranks?

 

00;19;11;19 - 00;19;41;21

MT

I would say don't quit on yourself. That's for me personally, as a woman and a woman of color in this industry, to always just believe in yourself, that what you find really interesting and powerful within yourself will just keep working at it and you'll get recognition. But it's not really about the recognition. I've always known I wanted to be an architect.

 

I feel architecture is like a stewardship. You are helping other people to obtain their desires and dreams and designs, but then also, too, helping the planet.

 

00;19;41;24 - 00;19;49;23

DP

So, Michelle, it's been great to have you here today. Thank you so much for your time. Where could people go to learn more M.Todd Architect and yourself?

 

00;19;49;26 - 00;19;56;06

MT

You can find me on my website at  MToddArchitects.com and then also I'm on LinkedIn.

 

00;19;56;08 - 00;19;58;10

DP

Well, thank you very much. It has been great to have you.

 

00;19;58;17 - 00;20;00;24

MT

Thank you so much. Appreciate the opportunity.