TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;30;08

Gabe Deck (GD)

We wanted to make sure we could fit as many units while making them as wide as possible. So five ended up being kind of the magic balance point to get them feeling pretty wide, really maximizing at least four bedrooms, five plus bathrooms, elevators and then roof deck spaces are pretty key for Philadelphia Center City townhouse developments. These houses each contain three roof deck spaces.

 

00;00;30;10 - 00;03;16;07

DP

This is my guest, Gabriel Deck. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault, we highlight Gabriel's Sansom5 Project in Center City, Philadelphia, Sansom5 is a collaborative venture between Philadelphia and New York developers. The site is a 5000 square foot rectangular parcel with three street frontages that previously contained small office buildings. The site is in Center City, Philadelphia, close to the Rittenhouse and Fittler's Squares.

 

There's a five foot grade change across the main frontage, and the parcel sits within a flood zone adjacent to the Schuylkill River. Most neighborhood buildings are primarily brick masonry with strong cornice lines, which drove esthetic and material choices. Each townhouse features entry door locations where grade changes mitigated and the facade is recessed within a portal of capstone. The project, which is light brown brick, also features facade materials that include gray, flat block, metal panels, wood, accent cladding, and a mix of black and brown clad, slim profile windows.

 

The project includes five high-end townhouses which maximize square footage. Each home contains four bedrooms, six bathrooms, an elevator and three outdoor spaces. Hi, I'm Doug Pat, and this is Design Vault. Gabriel Deck has a Bachelor of Architecture from Temple University. He describes himself as a big time Philadelphia guy, having stayed in Philly after college and continues to do business there.

 

He began his career working for Wallace Roberts on a variety of project types. After the 2008 recession, he got his real estate license, where he made a number of contacts in residential development over the next few years. These relationships led to a number of small residential design projects. He eventually started his own small firm. His work was mostly urban, small scale residential editions, which quickly grew into new construction townhouse developments and then larger adaptive reuse residential projects.

 

The scale of work grew over the first few years, as did the business. The firm was rebranded GNOME Architects in 2018. The team is currently nine people operating out of a repurposed public high school in South Philadelphia. The firm has 400 plus projects to date, mostly in Philly, but also in other parts of the country as far reaching as Colorado and Maine.

 

Welcome Gabe. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about GNOME Architects in Philly. Where are you guys located? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what type of work do you do?

 

00;03;16;09 - 00;04;27;27

GD

So GNOME Architects has been around since about 2018 after a rebrand of my previous business. We're currently a team of nine people comprised of myself and my business partner, Derek Spencer, and a handful of designers. So the business started back in 2013. Originally when I quit my job at WRC to focus on some small residential projects that I had acquired from developer contacts that I had made working in real estate.

 

Philadelphia is a small town in terms of the industry. Word spreads and quickly I was able to get a lot of project work by way of these developer contacts. Most of the projects were third floor additions, small townhouse, new construction, infill projects. And once I partnered with Derek Spencer, we started focusing a bit more on larger multifamily work.

 

The team grew, the project scale grew. Now we are working on developer driven business on one end of the firm doing large multifamily work, low rise podium buildings. Most are 30 to 50 units in scale. And then on the other side, we're doing custom single family homeowner projects with interior design as well.

 

00;04;27;29 - 00;04;41;10

DP

So Gabe you had your real estate license, which is pretty interesting for an architect, and you use that, I'm assuming, for a few years during the recession and then kind of moved back into architecture. When did you get your architectural license?

 

00;04;41;13 - 00;04;58;08

GD

So architectural license came around 2012, couple of years after the real estate license, and kind of was doing the two in tandem, you know, working nights and weekends trying to do sales. I got burned out pretty quickly, doing a full time job with an architecture firm, and then that on nights and weekends, it was a lot.

 

00;04;58;11 - 00;05;15;06

DP

What's so interesting to me is over the course of my career, I have met a lot of architects that end up doing lots of different jobs because architects aren't always busy all the time and they're one of the first people hit by recessions.

 

00;05;15;08 - 00;05;36;28

GD

Yes. And that's exactly kind of what happened to the big firm that I was with. I wasn't sure of my future there, wasn't sure what I was going to do. And real estate. I had a number of friends that were in the business. I went in that direction and I figured it was somewhat parallel to an interest in residential design.

 

So it seemed like a natural fit and thankfully it led to a lot of good relationships and some work to start the business.

 

00;05;37;05 - 00;05;42;19

DP

Yeah, it certainly sounds fortuitous. So what is your role in the office as a principal?

 

00;05;42;25 - 00;06;01;00

GD

I share the burden of running of the office with my business partner, Derek Spencer. I would say my role is more in the CEO traditional sense, while also the design director of the firm, where my business partner is handling more of the technical development of things and more overseeing the design development of things.

 

00;06;01;02 - 00;06;06;14

DP

So it's always interesting to find out how people end up working together. How'd you meet Derek?

 

00;06;06;17 - 00;06;40;10

GD

Derek and I started working together. He was my first employee, actually. I met him through mutual contacts when I realized I was spread too thin, working out of a spare bedroom in my home in the early days of my business. Derek was currently working for a firm across town, that’s, I'd say, one of our competitors. He was looking for something new, and it was the infancy stages of the business, so he came to start working with me.

 

And fast forward to three years later, we had a team of four of us and we were ready to rebrand and create GNOME Architects.

 

00;06;40;13 - 00;06;57;06

DP

So let's dig in here and talk about the project. This is really beautiful and I would imagine it took some time to get done in Center City, Philadelphia. So how did your office get the project? And you did mention obviously that you had some relationships or acquaintances that were developers.

 

00;06;57;09 - 00;07;23;25

GD

This project actually came from one of my very first clients that I had who was connected with the real estate office where I hung my license at that time. It was a partnership between that long existing client and a couple of developers from New York City that purchased the property, and we assisted them to take it through all of the permitting process and all the hoops we had to jump through as it's a pretty sensitive site.

 

00;07;23;27 - 00;07;28;02

DP

So could you give us a little history of the location before your buildings?

 

00;07;28;04 - 00;07;57;09

GD

So the site is on the western end of Center City, Philadelphia, about a block away from the Schuylkill River, sits in a floodplain about five feet or so below the FEMA flood zone line. It was a three sided site. So we had challenges to create, drive all access and building entrances and maximizing the use of both Center city and looking west towards the river.

 

So it was a challenging yet a site that had a lot of great opportunity as well to work with it.

 

00;07;57;12 - 00;08;03;10

DP

Yes, So unusual to get a piece of property in the city with three street frontages.

 

00;08;03;13 - 00;08;18;27

GD

Yeah, it's pretty uncommon, but it actually allows for some benefits as far as how you apply the zoning code and how city planning orients. The frontages actually worked to our benefit to get a driver on the back and five houses fronting the broad side of the site.

 

00;08;18;29 - 00;08;43;06

DP

So, Gabe, what was the scope of the project and what were the programmatic requirements for the townhouses?

 

00;08;43;09 - 00;09;09;12

GD

So the scope of the project was to try to maximize as many townhouse units as we could across the site, while also ensuring that they felt large and spacious and wide with Philadelphia townhouse development. You're often dealing with very narrow properties, so anything that's built new construction is typically somewhere between 14 and 20 feet wide or so. So we wanted to make sure we could fit as many units while making them as wide as possible.

 

00;09;09;12 - 00;09;30;29

GD

So five ended up being kind of the magic balance point to get them feeling pretty wide. The developer wanted to make sure we could provide as much parking as possible, so each unit has a two car garage and then really maximizing at least four bedrooms, five plus bathrooms, elevators, and then the big thing here also is just outdoor spaces.

 

00;09;30;29 - 00;09;42;01

GD

So roof deck spaces are pretty key for Philadelphia Center City Townhouse developments. These houses each contain three roof deck spaces.

 

00;09;42;04 - 00;09;45;02

DP

And how many stories has the project has had? Four or five.

 

00;09;45;04 - 00;09;59;18

GD

It's technically five stories by way of the code. However, there is a pilot house on top of each house, which also contains some livable or habitable space, which makes the buildings read as six stories interesting.

 

00;09;59;18 - 00;10;21;08

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the style, the architecture, some of the buildings that surround it. I had mentioned that we had some pretty strong cornice lines locally and you probably picked up on that in terms of brick courses. And then we've got some really beautiful, tall, decorative patterning on each one of these facades.

 

00;10;21;15 - 00;10;45;02

GD

We typically like to do our best to work in some contextual elements into our projects. So with this site, there's a lot of surrounding context that has primarily brick material, very strong cornice lines at the rooflines. So inserting a new development that is essentially six stories adjacent to a lot of three and four story buildings, we had to kind of get creative to make things fit in.

 

00;10;45;05 - 00;11;08;23

GD

So we kind of struck a line at the top of the fourth floor for the brick material. Coming up to that, a chorus line at the top of the fourth floor. And then we selected a kind of a gray, brown, beige tone brick, as a lot of the neighboring buildings are a variety of colors. So there's not really a strong predominance of red brick or white brick or brown.

 

00;11;08;23 - 00;11;16;20

GD

It's kind of all over the place. So the gray brown tone of the selected brick that we used kind of was a nice middle ground for it.

 

00;11;16;22 - 00;11;34;10

DP

So let's go back to the zoning for a second. So these buildings step back as they move up above that third story. Plus they're up at least on one end, at least five feet, creating these stoops. Did you have to step the buildings back? I know you clearly did that for functional reasons to have these roof gardens up there.

 

00;11;34;17 - 00;11;57;18

GD

Yes. So it was, again, just a way to kind of fit within the context of the lower height buildings around us. The zoning code didn't really require us to set the buildings back where we did. We did it more for the outdoor spaces, but the fourth floor line was kind of the natural place to do a material transition to make the massing fit well with the vernacular nearby.

 

00;11;57;20 - 00;12;00;28

DP

Were there any historical reviews by the zoning board?

 

00;12;01;00 - 00;12;31;12

GD

Surprisingly, this was not a historical designated site, so we were not subject to any historic review. I would say the biggest hurdles we had or really within meeting the flood zone regulations. So it was a challenge to make sure we maintained all the FEMA regulations so these buildings don't have basements. We have flood doors on all facades and the challenges related to keeping your habitable floors above the flood plain were the big driving elements for this.

 

00;12;31;15 - 00;12;45;24

DP

Okay, so first floors above the floodplain, the base, the plinth, I'll call it, is masonry, is brick masonry. So you have these doors. Do they have to be a certain size? And I would imagine they're breakaway or is that the way it works?

 

00;12;45;26 - 00;13;06;23

GD

So each structure had to have a number of flood vents on at least two sides of the exterior walls. The size of these denser, I believe, one square inch per square foot of building footprint. They allow for the passing of flood water going in and out of the building just to relieve the flood pressure that the building would be subject to.

 

00;13;06;28 - 00;13;21;11

GD

So we did our best to hide them in kind of inconspicuous areas along the front facade where they were required, as well as the back of the building where the dry is. That's not really seen from the public right of way. So it was a nice place to hide these vents.

 

00;13;21;13 - 00;13;32;09

DP

So tell me about the apartments and plants we get along rectangle and each one of these is more squarish in plan. And I'm also wondering, I don't see the two car garages.

 

00;13;32;11 - 00;13;56;26

GD

Yeah. So the garages are all facing a rear drive aisle that we were able to hide. It's like a one way drive I'll access that comes in off of one of the small side streets, exits on the far end of the other side street. And then there are two car garages at the rear of each home are facing this drive while the driveway is also covered by a series of exterior decks, each deck serving one of the houses.

 

00;13;56;26 - 00;14;01;13

GD

So it's a covered drive aisle with a garage door. At either end of it, you never actually see it.

 

00;14;01;19 - 00;14;04;11

DP

And the buildings in plan are the each rectangles.

 

00;14;04;13 - 00;14;17;17

GD

Yes. So they're roughly, I'd say, 22, 23 feet wide by 40 to 50 feet deep with the drive at the rear and the main entrance at the opposite side facing the street frontage.

 

00;14;17;20 - 00;14;23;24

DP

So what was the building review like with the city of Philadelphia? Was that challenging? Was it time consuming?

 

00;14;24;01 - 00;14;45;16

GD

So it had a bit of back and forth. Our office handling primarily projects in Philadelphia. We've made a lot of good relationships with different plans examiners, different city agencies. I've gotten to know the process pretty well, as it is rather daunting for anyone who's unfamiliar with it. So I would say this project had a number of rounds of verifies from the plans.

 

00;14;45;16 - 00;15;10;14

GD

Examiner is mostly related to the interpretation of the parking that was implemented as well as kind of the interpretation of the roof deck access structures and that type of things. And typically it's a dialog with them to make sure everyone's kind of on the same page and there's a middle ground you need to find. But I would say we got through it in a couple of rounds, which was better than we had expected given the sensitive features of the site.

 

00;15;10;16 - 00;15;25;02

DP

So building materials you guys used primary Li Brick, I mentioned to you before we got rolling, it's a light. It appears to be a light brown brick. It's actually called Stonington gray velour. It's got a wide variety of values or shades in it.

 

00;15;25;08 - 00;15;46;03

GD

This was a really beautiful brick that worked well for our goals to kind of strike a line between the various masonry colors of the surrounding buildings. So it actually has a nice amount of variety in it. Some of the bricks are a lot more brown and darker. Some of the bricks are very light kind of in the the off-white color range.

 

00;15;46;03 - 00;16;06;16

GD

So once you get close, you really see the variety of color that's in there, which is really nice. And then at different times of the day, it also reads a little bit differently in the morning in direct sunlight. It kind of has a more of a warm brown tone to it and kind of in the twilight hours of the sun going down, there's a lot of reflectivity is caught.

 

00;16;06;16 - 00;16;13;14

GD

And when you look closely at it, so it really speaks well to the contemporary approach that the building esthetic has.

 

00;16;13;16 - 00;16;42;09

DP

What I love about this project is the brick pattern. You guys really spent a lot of time working on all the different patterning that's happening at the Stoops and around the windows, at the cornice lines. So tell us about how you did that in the office. Right? Typically we see a designer working on exterior elevation drawings and then, you know, the lead designers review them and it's back and forth and then eventually you're putting that into the CDs and you're doing mock ups in the field.

 

00;16;42;09 - 00;16;43;19

DP

So how did that go?

 

00;16;43;22 - 00;17;09;08

GD

Yeah, so it surprisingly went pretty smoothly on this project. The brick patterning that we went with was kind of a solution to a number of problems. We had planned driven windows, which is typical of these Philadelphia townhouse projects where you don't have a lot of space. So your windows can only go in certain areas. But then when you want to create alignments vertically on the facade and such, you've got to kind of get creative.

 

00;17;09;08 - 00;17;32;11

GD

Sometimes if that's a goal. So the brick patterning that we implemented was a tool to kind of strike these alignments vertically in the facade. So we have this recessed entry portal that is maybe two thirds of the width of the frontage, but the windows on the upper floors could not necessarily align with the jams of that portal opening.

 

00;17;32;11 - 00;18;01;20

GD

So we implemented brick patterning at the JAMB locations of the windows to then create a hard line that would align with the portal entryway below. That's one way we used the pattern to help. We also used it to just create interest on the facade. As I mentioned, the flood zone required us to keep the living spaces pretty high out of grade and that resulted in what would otherwise be a rather blank wall at the base of the building.

 

00;18;01;20 - 00;18;17;09

GD

The changes in brick pattern were a tool to kind of add some interest, so the brick we chose in relationship to a lot of cast stone that also creates some interesting accents around the window openings was a nice balance.

 

00;18;17;12 - 00;18;26;27

DP

What I really love is in this photograph on the far left you've got the brick patterning at the center stoop, but the patterning is completely different. On the left and right.

 

00;18;26;29 - 00;18;52;27

GD

The stoops were a huge focus of the design, so we had to get the occupants about 5 to 6 feet above the sidewalk level to the entry doors, which instead of having kind of a visible staircase that would otherwise dominate the sidewalk, we utilized a screen wall of brick in front of the staircase entryway that was also in front of a patterned planter box.

 

00;18;52;27 - 00;19;16;10

GD

So you have these multiple layers of masonry that add interest at the staircase. It allows us to insert some greenery as well. So it's a very tactile experience as you walk up to the front door of these houses that worked out very beautifully and the execution of the masonry and saw was fantastic by the mason as well, which we were very pleased to see.

 

00;19;16;12 - 00;19;39;18

GD

We had a series of conversations with the GC to make sure everyone was on the same page with the detailing. Our construction documents were very thorough to make sure that the areas of recess patterning as well as kind of projected roll lock and soldier course detailing was achieved and all the shadow lines could be read throughout the day as the sun moves around the building.

 

00;19;39;20 - 00;19;42;16

DP

So did you guys draw this in 2D and 3D?

 

00;19;42;18 - 00;20;12;01

GD

Yes. Our process typically starts with a three dimensional model of the building that we get to a comfortable point. We utilize sketch up primarily for a design tool in the schematic phase. And once we're happy with the sketch model, we move into 2D drawing. This project was done a few years ago before our office implemented Revit, but we were still able to successfully document how all the masonry patterning was working in 2D.

 

00;20;12;04 - 00;20;16;29

DP

So did you show the three dimensional model to the clients along the way?

 

00;20;17;06 - 00;20;42;27

GD

We did. We had a number of options for this projects. They were all similar in the materiality, but some were maybe a little more traditional, others were even more contemporary looking. So we utilized the 3D models as a design tool to visualize the project to the client. And in the end they were very happy with one of the options we chose, which had very minimal changes that they needed to see.

 

00;20;43;00 - 00;20;47;25

DP

Clients love 3D models, right? Were you able to model any of the BRIC in SketchUp?

 

00;20;47;27 - 00;21;17;18

GD

We built the SketchUp model and applied some custom made material swatches that we built utilizing other brick colors, and we made sure we could match exactly what the Stonington gray velour would look like. And then it was just a matter of scaling the pattern down to the brick unit. So even in the areas where you have these dimple patterns that read against the entryway walls, all of the patterns were aligned perfectly to align up with the massing recesses that took place in the model.

 

00;21;17;18 - 00;21;19;20

GD

So it ended up being pretty successful.

 

00;21;19;22 - 00;21;23;26

DP

So how many people worked on the team for the project from the architects office?

 

00;21;23;28 - 00;21;40;10

GD

I would say that through the design process there were at least four of us that work through the design concepts together and I would say primarily one designer and myself kind of pushed the design to where it is now. But back when we did the project, it was a pretty collaborative effort within the office.

 

00;21;40;13 - 00;21;48;08

DP

So I feel like every project I learn something new. Did you guys learn anything through the process of working on this project?

 

00;21;48;11 - 00;22;11;06

GD

We learned quite a bit, especially in terms of the brick detailing here. We kind of learned that certain patterns have rules around them, especially when you're utilizing like a stacked pattern where you have these very clean vertical lines that need to be maintained. It's tricky to make sure that things don't read as a mistake within that patterning, especially as it relates to where you put windows.

 

00;22;11;08 - 00;22;31;10

GD

So we had to make sure our window spacing was just right. So you didn't results in little slivers of brick that would be noticeable and read as a mistake. So we took a lot of care in making sure that the tolerances and the actual window sizes and everything were worked in to make sure that we didn't end up with those kind of conditions.

 

00;22;31;12 - 00;22;45;08

DP

And that takes some pretty close work with the. Mason You mentioned that you thought the execution worked out well. Did you guys have a tough time finding a mason or was the first mason you guys ended up meeting the person you used.

 

00;22;45;10 - 00;23;11;22

GD

So the general contractor, it was his team, really. And the mason that he chose and started the project with kind of nailed it right from the start. We had probably two or three on site meetings with the Mason, looking at the drawings. That's a back and forth with some questions. And then ultimately we had a small mockup in the field and everyone was on the same page and collectively in the room together to make sure that the execution was going to happen just right.

 

00;23;11;22 - 00;23;12;18

GD

And it did.

 

00;23;12;20 - 00;23;40;09

DP

So last thing I wanted to ask you about was the metal panels on the fourth floor and these large bay windows on the outside edges of the building. Really beautiful. These are great details. You see these bay window details everywhere on 1930s and forties, city architecture. And I think doing that on the ends of these buildings and then adding the flat lock metal panels to the fourth floor is really beautiful.

 

00;23;40;11 - 00;23;41;19

DP

Great detail.

 

00;23;41;22 - 00;23;59;21

GD

Yeah. So back to kind of the challenges of working in Philadelphia and not a lot of space to work with. The bay windows are always a tool to add a little bit more interior square footage, but the challenge is always Hadia clad them. How do you make them feel appropriate when the rest of the facade material is masonry?

 

00;23;59;23 - 00;24;29;00

GD

Yeah, we kind of struck a line with a traditional meets contemporary bay esthetic to compliment the window patterns within the masonry as well. So the bays have very kind of glassy windows, wrapping all sides in the same style of windows as the punched openings within the flanking brick masonry and then the color of the bays being much darker than the masonry was meant to draw more attention away from the bay and actually focus it on the adjacent brick masonry.

 

00;24;29;02 - 00;24;48;17

DP

One more comment or question. These entry portals are beautiful. Was it tough for you guys to decide? Okay, we're going to set back the front door and these very large windows lose a little bit of square footage, but we get these entries which are highly differentiated on the facade or along the facade.

 

00;24;48;20 - 00;25;11;06

GD

Yes. So the entry portal was a result of trying to solve a problem around the narrow sidewalk. The city only allows you to project so far into the public right of way and you're trying to make this nice prominent entrance for this luxury townhouse. And in order to achieve a wide staircase going up there, you got to kind of recess the frontage of the building.

 

00;25;11;06 - 00;25;31;25

GD

So we accomplished that by recessing just the entryway that the ground floor. When I mentioned being in the floodplain, we had to get the first floor up pretty high. So the entry door is actually at a middle landing between the garage level in the first floor. The first floor is actually up about ten feet above the sidewalk. So we recessed the entryway.

 

00;25;31;25 - 00;25;40;02

GD

It allowed us to have four or five foot wide steps leading up to the front door and a nice prominent procession up the steps to the front door of the house.

 

00;25;40;09 - 00;26;03;15

DP

Well, Gabe, it's a beautiful project. When I first saw these photos, I was really excited to do this interview. So I have done so many different things in my career while being an architect. And while it's not that unusual, I've found that being an architect has helped me to be good at lots of other things in my life.

 

00;26;03;18 - 00;26;30;10

DP

The other thing that I will say is that we end up working on many different things in our lives, even if we're let's say you end up doing stair details for a large firm for ten years and you think I wasted all that time doing stair details. The reality is we never really know when any of the things that we learn how to do will come in handy and can ultimately change our life in some way, even if it's in a small way.

 

00;26;30;10 - 00;26;45;28

DP

So I think it's really cool that you got your real estate license because you made all of these relationships or just a couple relationships that ultimately helped you become a successful architect. It's a big deal, right? So I don't think you give yourself enough credit.

 

00;26;46;00 - 00;27;04;16

GD

Yeah, I think I realized early on that I was good at some things, but not good at everything I needed to be good at. So the relationships were everything, especially in the early days. So knowing when to reach out to the people who know the solution is a big part of being an architect, a big part of being an entrepreneur.

 

00;27;04;16 - 00;27;22;22

GD

Starting a business as well is, you know, you need to do it right. You have a license that you got to hang your hat on. So it's critical for you to understand when it's time to reach out for design professionals outside of your purview and outside of your profession for the right solution to problems on your projects.

 

00;27;22;24 - 00;27;29;20

DP

So, Gabe, it's been great to have you here. Thanks so much for your time. Where can people go to learn more about No more architects and yourself?

 

00;27;29;22 - 00;27;44;25

GD

Sure. So our website is pretty current websites WWE and gnome arch dot com genome RC. I would say even more current than that is our Instagram account, which is also at Gnome Arch.

 

00;27;44;28 - 00;27;47;19

DP

So one more question. Where did you get the name?

 

00;27;47;21 - 00;28;09;22

GD

The name actually came from a rebranding exercise that we did back in 2018 and we were looking to create a new identity that spoke to the residential nature of our products and we wanted to kind of speak to the home and a place of being. So the gnome, the garden gnome is a character that does that. It's the marker of place.

 

00;28;09;22 - 00;28;35;29

GD

We also wanted the branding to be very memorable and approachable, so we initially kind of wrote off a name that came to us from our rebranding company and we thought it was crazy. And the more rounds of more names they suggested to us, the more we came back to that first stab of GNOME being the solution and so happy that we trusted in the company that we rebranded with and it's worked out for us very well.

 

00;28;36;05 - 00;28;37;25

DP

It's a great story. Well, thanks again, Gabe.

 

00;28;38;00 - 00;28;41;13

GD

Thank you.

 

00;28;41;16 - 00;29;05;01

DP

Thanks for listening. If you learned something today, share this episode with a friend and give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find the show. If you want to find out more about today's project, visit Glengarry com forward slash design dash vault that's gleaned GSR y dot com forward slash design dash vault one even more inspiration.

 

00;29;05;01 - 00;29;28;24

DP

Take a look around Glengarry icon while you're there. Glengarry is one of the nation's largest brick manufacturers and an industry leader for its diversified product line of more than 600 brick products with inspiring photos, useful resources, easy search tools, helpful design studios, and more. I'm sure you'll find the inspiration you need to stretch your imagination

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;34;05

Michelle Todd (MT)

So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade. It was a beautiful building of brick in the front and the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. We wind up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just a renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild.

 

00;00;34;07 - 00;01;01;23

DP

This is my guest, Michelle Todd. I'll share more about her shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault. We highlight Michelle's restoration project at 102 Bainbridge Street in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. The Bainbridge Street renovation project is located in the Stuyvesant Heights Historic District. It was built within a row of buildings, which is a long group of houses planned to form seven freestanding architectural units.

 

00;01;01;28 - 00;03;46;13

DP

102 is situated at the end of the row. It's a modified Spanish residential style home with a triple arched loggia made of red brick laid in Flemish pond. The roof parapet rises at the center in an arch supported on concave shoulders. The restoration was begun to repair a buckling roof parapet, deteriorated walls, damaged pediment and cracking stucco facade.

 

Renovation work was extensive and a decision was made early not to replace the stucco, but rather leave and repair the natural brick masonry. The building scope also changed during construction from an exterior renovation to demolition and reconstruction due to construction material issues. Structural engineers were also consulted to create a necessary and unique wall construction method. The existing roof skylights, roof hatch and areas of limestone and bluestone were also repaired.

 

The project was also recently awarded the 2023 Lucy G. Moses New York Landmark Conservancy Award. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Michelle Todd is an architect and principal of M.Todd Architects in Bedford-Stuyvesant, New York. Michelle has a master of science from Columbia University in architecture and urban design. She also studied at the École des Beaux-Arts in France.

 

Michelle grew up in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood in the 1970s. She knew she wanted to be an architect by the age of ten. Her interests today focus on urban planning and socially responsive architecture. After a brief stint at Perkins Eastman, she opened her own firm in 2008. Since then, she's worked for small and large corporations such as Snapple, the New York City Agency Office of Emergency Management, as well as private residential projects.

 

Her studio in Brooklyn, New York, focuses on historic renovations and additions, collaborating directly with clients and working closely with the general contractor during construction. Michelle's worked on Landmark designated buildings, bakeries, restaurants, schools and renovation projects. She's an adjunct professor at the New York City CUNY College and a licensed architect in New York State and Maryland. She's certified as a consultant with the International Institute of Building Enclosures, and Living Future accredited with the International Living Future Institute.

 

Welcome, Michelle. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about M.Todd Architects in Brooklyn. So where in Bed-Stuy are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long have you been around? And tell us a little more about project types.

 

00;03;46;16 - 00;04;19;19

MT

The firm is in the heart of Bedford-Stuyvesant on the whole Z Street. Been around since 2008 was almost 15 years as of March of this year, 2024. And basically the firm is small, is about three people, we specialize specifically in historical preservation, as well as residential private editions, commercial projects such as restaurants, bake houses and also schools. So basically you have a realm of achievement in different areas, which is commercial, residential and also business.

 

00;04;19;21 - 00;04;26;09

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been practicing architecture and what's your role in the office as principal?

 

00;04;26;12 - 00;05;00;18

MT

I've been practicing architecture since 2008, when I received my license. However, I do have decades of experience before then in working at previous larger offices, in smaller offices to gain the experience I needed. Because, as you know, as an architect, you have to have at least three years working first in the field and then afterwards you're able to take the examination.

 

So once I did that, then just made initiative to just start my own practice. And basically I am the principal where I do a lot of marketing as well as clients in order to obtain business.

 

00;05;00;20 - 00;05;02;15

DP

And you said you have some employees?

 

00;05;02;21 - 00;05;13;16

MT

I do have employees. They're basically consultants. So basically I have a expediter. I have a drafts person. I have also my consultants, such as structural engineer, mechanical engineers.

 

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;21;08

DP

That's interesting. So you have an expediter that you guys use. And is that to make the process working with the city a little easier?

 

00;05;21;11 - 00;05;33;17

MT

It really does make it easier because as a person with a small firm, your hands are in everything. So to have somebody to be on the outside, to be able to do that type of work is appreciative and helpful.

 

00;05;33;19 - 00;05;46;05

DP

That's really cool. I mean, just as an aside, I hadn't really thought about the need for an expediter in a firm like that, but that makes perfect sense. So let's dig in here and talk about the home. How did your office get the project?

 

00;05;46;07 - 00;06;08;01

MT

I received the project in regards to as a dear friend, where I'm on the New York City Landmark Committee for Bedford-Stuyvesant specifically, and Community Board three, and he was a good member, Fred Jones, rest in peace. He had a friend who was in need of architectural services, so he recommended me to the client, which is the richest family, about this project.

 

00;06;08;03 - 00;06;10;01

DP

So you didn't know the clients before you got the job?

 

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;18;04

MT

I didn't know the clients. It was a friend of a friend, and he just talked highly about me and said that you should work with me in regards to this project.

 

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;24;26

DP

So give us a little history about the location. And was I correct in stating that the unit is an end unit?

 

00;06;24;29 - 00;07;08;00

MT

It is. It's in the beautiful, original, historic district of Bedford-Stuyvesant, which is known as Stuyvesant Heights, and it was established as a landmark district in 1971. So this set of buildings, it's literally between Stuyvesant and Lewis on Bainbridge. There's about 14 series of the buildings, and it's at the end row and there are Spanish style Renaissance buildings. That was created by W.f. McCarthy, who was an architect back in 1919.

 

And the unique thing about these buildings is that it's the only buildings I've ever been in with it has two staircases inside where there's one in the back and one in the front. So I guess back in those days they would have the servants come through the back and then the owners come through the front.

 

00;07;08;03 - 00;07;10;14

DP

Roughly, what's the square footage of the project?

 

00;07;10;16 - 00;07;13;09

MT

It's about 1200 square feet.

 

00;07;13;11 - 00;07;17;05

DP

And what was the scope and the programmatic requirements from the owner?

 

00;07;17;07 - 00;10;08;12

MT

Well, the original scope and program was that it was in terrible need in regards to the existing structure, the parapet was buckling. So on the north facade as well as the south and west facades, it was just crumbling. They were scared that it was going to fall down in some way. So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade.

 

But then as we went along, we started to think also, it was a beautiful building of brick in the front. And the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. Once we started to do the renovation was like, you know, we don't really need the stucco. It really looks beautiful with the brick itself. So we started to expose all the stucco, and by exposing all the stucco, we wound up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just the renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild. So we found out the history, and that was the nice thing about it. We really had to go back in the history of it. This is where the assistance of the expediter really came into play, because basically we found out that back in 1956, the building itself had a permit to actually do a addition because all of these beautiful houses.

 

What makes them so special in this neighborhood, too, is that they have their own private driveway, which many people don't have in that area. And also they have a garage. But then also on the second floor of each of these houses, they have a beautiful sunroom with a balcony. The person who owned the property at 102 Bainbridge, he basically wanted to make an addition.

 

So he eliminated that balcony and extended the whole square footage of the building so it can be enclosed. When we removed the stucco, we found out that instead of it masonry, he had it wood. So that was back in 1956. So we had to go back all the way to the building department to find out what the original drawings were, which we found out which were these beautiful blueprint drawings that you don't see anymore.

 

And it said that year they were legally supposed to have an addition, but it was supposed to be made out of brick, not wood. So that's where the whole expedition kind of came in. I had to go back to New York City building department, as well as the landmarks, because everyone was like shocked that it was wood versus masonry.

 

And we basically had to do a whole reconstruction. And that's where I guess the product of Glen-Gery came into play, because what happened to you is that on the back of the facade, all the bricks in the building weren't the same. The bricks in the front of the building were made out of Beldon, and it was a different type of color scheme.

 

But then when we removed the stucco in the back, it was a beautiful match with the Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert Plantation Middle Plantation, 52DD. It was a perfect match to it. Again, we had to go back to landmarks to make sure that they were approve of that brick to match what was in the rear facade that was being used.

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;10;17;12

DP

So what's interesting about the photographs that you sent is that the building looks as though some of these walls were completely taken down.

 

00;10;17;18 - 00;10;59;01

MT

It was because due to the fact it was stucco and I'm an architect that's very conscious about the environment. And stucco is something I concrete and it adds to the carbon footprint. So the whole idea was that this project specifically was to eliminate that process in really being more progressive and more enhancing to the environment. So that's why we didn't use stucco.

 

We wanted to just expose the beautiful masonry itself. And therefore, by eliminating the stucco, we saw the building was in need of much deeper repair than we expected. That was the thing, because in 1956 you figured that the contractors would be honest and they would do what they were supposed to do. But he wasn’t. And therefore that made this more of an adventure to get it right.

 

00;10;59;03 - 00;11;05;27

DP

So I would imagine there are a number of other buildings on that block that were also made of wood, that the interior wall construction. Is that correct?

 

00;11;06;00 - 00;11;44;10

MT

I don't know. That's the whole thing. What happened is, what makes this special is that this is the only house that has the addition. That's it. Everybody else has the sunroom. So this once in particular you thought that you would put it in masonry, but it's in it makes sense. First landmarks had to come and see it.

 

They were, like, shocked. Then I received the structural engineer, which was SOMA Engineering Firm, which is a great engineering firm. They came, they were shocked. The construction company that we work with, Naim Construction, all of us was basically shocked that this was behind the stucco because it looked like everything was fine. But when exposed, that's when we all gathered together as a team to like how we can resolve this.

 

00;11;44;16 - 00;11;52;22

DP

Interesting. Let's back up and talk a little bit about the plan of the building. I would assume it's just a large rectangle, two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;52;24 - 00;11;54;23

MT

Exactly. It was a two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;55;00 - 00;11;59;29

DP

And had you been contracted to design the interiors as well?

 

00;12;00;04 - 00;12;20;18

MT

I have for later date because what happens is based on the fact that now the photographs that you have here show of what it was existing. We went back to the premise of what it was back in 1919 when the solarium had these beautiful corner windows. So the design now is encompassing back the original style of that format.

 

00;12;20;20 - 00;12;25;05

DP

So you had to work with the city. How long did that process take?

 

00;12;25;08 - 00;12;53;21

MT

This is how it began. The project began in May 2020, during the pandemic. Then we actually had approval to start construction in April of 2021. Then all of these items, open issues about the facade not being what it was, and reconstruction, we basically spent about two years after that, and it was completed around October 20, 23. So it was back and forth with New York Landmarks as well as New York City Building Department.

 

00;12;53;27 - 00;12;55;09

DP

And the client had somewhere to live.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;08;12

MT

He lived on the first floor. So the top floor. It was a blessing that he was able to live on the first floor while all this construction was going on. And in the top floor, basically, he had tenants, but then they moved out. When this major construction of us doing the rebuild.

 

00;13;08;15 - 00;13;09;07

DP

A lot of noise.

 

00;13;09;13 - 00;13;11;04

MT

It was a lot of noise.

 

00;13;11;04 - 00;13;11;23

DP

Very dusty.

 

00;13;11;24 - 00;13;15;00

MT

But it was fun.

 

00;13;15;02 - 00;13;24;10

DP

That's great. I'm interested as an architect about the drawings that you created in the very beginning. Did you work in 3D or just 2D?

 

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;33;28

MT

I worked in 2D, but then afterwards, when we started to look at what this condition that was taking place in the rear, I started looking at it in 3D and how it would be.

 

00;13;34;05 - 00;13;38;05

DP

And did you have to present drawings to a historic commission?

 

00;13;38;07 - 00;13;47;14

MT

Yes, we present it to Brian Blazak, is one of the senior preservationists on in New York City Landmarks. We had to show the drawings of what we planned to do.

 

00;13;47;16 - 00;13;48;26

DP

Exterior elevations?

 

00;13;49;03 - 00;13;50;24

MT

Yeah, exterior elevations.

 

00;13;50;26 - 00;13;58;25

DP

So again, backing up a little bit, you removed the stucco on one facade and replaced masonry on another. Is that correct?

 

00;13;58;28 - 00;14;25;03

MT

It's on the same facade. What happens is, is that the entire facade was placed in stucco. But then when we looked at the south elevation, so the windows were there, but it was infilled with wood. And that's what was shocking to everybody because basically it was really dilapidated and it also kind of made sense for the owner later on because he said his tenants always felt cold in that part of the room.

 

And it made sense because it was the wood and that masonry, there was no insulation whatsoever.

 

00;14;25;06 - 00;14;30;17

DP

So tell us a little bit about the new wall system that you guys had to create because of that condition.

 

00;14;30;19 - 00;15;17;03

MT

So the new wall system was still going back to what was historically done in regards to the rear facade was made out of three widths of brick, which basically is like three layers. And what we had to do is that we had to abide by what the actual, once we removed the stucco, what the actual pattern was, because it was a common bond, because as I stated in the beginning, the pattern in the front of the house was completely different than the pattern in the back of the house.

 

So once we established that, then we wanted to really make it structurally sound and we incorporated steel within the wall. So basically you have the three whiffs of brick on the outside, then you have the steel. It was stainless steel that made sure it was resource sustainably. And then we have our insulation and then our finishes in the inside.

 

00;15;17;06 - 00;15;26;25

DP

So the project sounds really interesting. Did you guys learn anything new about construction technologies or about building typologies in working on this project?

 

00;15;26;27 - 00;15;58;06

MT

Yes, the use of materials because again, was very selective about which materials we're going to use because since this building was already historically landmarked since 1919, we wanted to make sure that it lasts for another 100 years. So was very selective on who the steel came from, where the insulation came from, where the bricks came from. All of these were really mindful things and I think moving forward with other projects, I continue doing that, making sure that they are friendly to the planet as well as to the people who are going to live and utilize the buildings.

 

00;15;58;08 - 00;16;04;18

DP

So did the client bring the general contractor to the project or did you interview a number of contractors?

 

00;16;04;20 - 00;16;10;09

MT

We did interview a number of contractors, but then the client himself selected Naim Construction for it.

 

00;16;10;12 - 00;16;15;19

DP

And clearly there's a lot of masonry work. Did you have any challenges finding a good mason?

 

00;16;15;21 - 00;16;45;27

MT

Oh no. He has very excellent masons and they were very accommodating because we had to go back and forth with New York City Landmarks when we were selecting the bricks where we had to actually do a sample of the wall where the wood infill was of how the brick was going to look. So one of his masons, George, was really who's one of the oldest ones there.

 

It has most experience. He was very patient. We went on the scaffolding and it was a really cold day, but we did the whole mock up and it came out beautiful. And therefore Landmark said, Yes, go with it.

 

00;16;45;29 - 00;16;49;16

DP

So you did the mock up and the city came out and took a look at it?

 

00;16;49;19 - 00;16;56;05

MT

No, we took photographs and then afterwards they were like, because it was cold.

 

00;16;56;07 - 00;17;05;24

DP

So the city doesn't like to go out on cold days? I think we’ll leave that in there. That's good. So I assume the client's living there now?

 

00;17;06;02 - 00;17;09;17

MT

He is. He's living in the bottom floor still, but he's happy with the work.

 

00;17;09;20 - 00;17;12;25

DP

So is it complete? And he has a tenant on the second floor?

 

00;17;13;00 - 00;17;22;21

MT

He doesn't have a tenant on the second floor. And it's not quite complete yet because now we're just waiting for the historical windows to come in. So that is the last crème de la crème.

 

00;17;22;23 - 00;17;24;27

DP

And who is the manufacturer of the windows?

 

00;17;25;03 - 00;17;36;10

MT

It is Norwood Manufacturers, a Canadian company. And again, it was very selective on them because the way they use and harvest wood in order to make the windows, we're really mindful about that.

 

00;17;36;17 - 00;17;39;23

DP

Interesting. Are they double glazed? Triple glazed?

 

00;17;39;25 - 00;17;49;03

MT

They're triple glazed, low e glass index and they're quite beautiful. They're the original to what was there before of the windows? So they're replicating those.

 

00;17;49;05 - 00;17;57;00

DP

So I'm curious in terms of color, you were able to find a brick that you were happy with. You said that matched on the exterior.

 

00;17;57;02 - 00;18;12;16

MT

The contractor has suggested he was like, this will be a perfect break. I did research and was a Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert 52 DD Middle Plantation. That was the one that was selected. And when we put it in place, it was perfect to what was there from 1919.

 

00;18;12;22 - 00;18;15;27

DP

So do all these row homes, they all must look the same?

 

00;18;16;02 - 00;18;45;16

MT

They basically all look the same. And the other fascinating thing too, with the project, when we were doing the demo for the wood infield, all the bricks, I learned this like recently from my practice that the bricks that we were removing, that were there all had the names of the brick companies on there. And you don't see that anymore in which they were actually etched into the brick.

 

I was like, Wow, It's like, fascinating. So it was like an archeological project in the same way of doing something better for the building for another hundred years.

 

00;18;45;19 - 00;18;52;24

DP

So when you guys put these new windows in, what about the color? Can you do whatever color you want or the colors have to match the other homes.

 

00;18;52;26 - 00;18;57;13

MT

The colors have to match. It is going to be made out of wood, but they're going to be of a white finish.

 

00;18;57;16 - 00;19;00;10

DP

And they have to be traditional in style to match the others.

 

00;19;00;16 - 00;19;01;06

MT

Exactly.

 

00;19;01;06 - 00;19;11;17

DP

Interesting. So, Michelle, you've been an architect for some time. Based on what you know today about being an architect, you have any words of advice for your younger self or maybe architects coming up in the ranks?

 

00;19;11;19 - 00;19;41;21

MT

I would say don't quit on yourself. That's for me personally, as a woman and a woman of color in this industry, to always just believe in yourself, that what you find really interesting and powerful within yourself will just keep working at it and you'll get recognition. But it's not really about the recognition. I've always known I wanted to be an architect.

 

I feel architecture is like a stewardship. You are helping other people to obtain their desires and dreams and designs, but then also, too, helping the planet.

 

00;19;41;24 - 00;19;49;23

DP

So, Michelle, it's been great to have you here today. Thank you so much for your time. Where could people go to learn more M.Todd Architect and yourself?

 

00;19;49;26 - 00;19;56;06

MT

You can find me on my website at  MToddArchitects.com and then also I'm on LinkedIn.

 

00;19;56;08 - 00;19;58;10

DP

Well, thank you very much. It has been great to have you.

 

00;19;58;17 - 00;20;00;24

MT

Thank you so much. Appreciate the opportunity.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;14

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;17 - 00;00;30;22

Jeremy Iannucci (JI)

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;00;30;25 - 00;03;22;21

DP

This is my guest, Jeremy Iannucci. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault, we highlight Marvel’s Project 1 Java in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. 1 Java is a mixed use residential series of buildings located in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The project responds to the New York City housing market and owners' needs addressing sustainability, constructability, risk mitigation, tax incentives and marketability.

 

The Development Investment Strategy required a net zero ready design and maximization of floor area. The project includes the largest geothermal array in New York State. The building will participate in the 421A affordable New York and inclusionary housing program, which provides up to 261 affordable housing units out of a total of 871. The new architecture consists of two towers, of prefabricated concrete sheet panels and three lower buildings varying from 6 to 10 storeys with brick masonry facades.

 

All five buildings rise from Greenpoint in a U-shape plan to maximize light views and open space. Terraces on the east and west. Facades of the towers modulate the elevation while creating private terraces for units and amenity spaces. Retail, food and beverage and live workspaces are consolidated along West and India streets. Townhomes share setback stoops, and a small secondary convenience lobby for the low rise along Java Street.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Jeremy Iannucci is a registered architect at Marvel in New York City. He has a Bachelor of Architecture from City College's Spitzer School of Architecture. His portfolio encompasses a number of challenging endeavors at Marvel, including a mixed use project located in Brooklyn's Waterfront, which we will discuss today. Jeremy enjoys taking part in international design competitions, one of which was recently shortlisted in a competition to design a children's hospice center, and another was awarded an honorary mention in which he designed a house relying exclusively on daylighting for organizing spaces and form making.

 

Jeremy also serves as a design critic at the City College of New York and Pratt Institute. So welcome, Jeremy. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Marvel in New York City. So where in the city are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what type of work do you guys do?

 

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;52;02

JI

Thank you so much for having me on. We are a New York firm. We also have offices in Puerto Rico, Richmond, Virginia, more recently, Barcelona. We're currently located in New York, in Tribeca, and around 200 people at this point. As far as projects that we take on, we like to say design everywhere for everyone. We don't try to limit ourselves to typology.

 

We take whatever comes at us. We measure everything against the values of the firm and we really just enjoy design.

 

00;03;52;05 - 00;03;58;21

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been working as an architect and what's your role in the office?

 

00;03;58;23 - 00;04;08;27

JI

So in the office I really work through all stages of the project, through design, working on developing proposals, project delivery and currently in construction to administration.

 

00;04;08;29 - 00;04;13;06

DP

So this is a really beautiful project and it's extraordinarily large.

 

00;04;13;12 - 00;04;14;13

JI

Yes, it is.

 

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;17;06

DP

So how did your office get the project?

 

00;04;17;08 - 00;04;33;02

JI

So we were invited to participate in the RFP back in fall of 2020. So there was a few other notable firms in the competition. We were lucky enough to be awarded the project, and we've been working hand in hand with Lendlease in bringing it to fruition ever since.

 

00;04;33;05 - 00;04;37;27

DP

Did you know the clients before you entered the competition?

 

00;04;37;29 - 00;04;47;23

JI

We had some previous relations with the clients as a contractor, but they've recently started opening a development wing in the United States. This is our first project, working with them in that capacity.

 

00;04;47;27 - 00;04;53;19

DP

So this site is really large. Could you give us a little history of the location?

 

00;04;53;21 - 00;05;23;07

JI

The site is 200 feet in the north south and then between West Street and the East River. Around 600 feet with 40 feet reserved for a waterfront esplanade. We actually pulled back even a little bit further from that. And it's located right on the waterfront in Greenpoint. There was recently a rezoning that allowed for a whole redesign of the waterfront, and our project is one of the earlier projects in that redevelopment.

 

00;05;23;09 - 00;05;29;05

DP

So could you give us an idea of what the scope of the project is and the programmatic requirements?

 

00;05;29;07 - 00;05;49;14

JI

So it's a residential project, around 834 units, encompassing a total of around 800,000 square feet. This also comes with a series of amenity spaces, a series of retail spaces, as well as that waterfront park, and also a collection of rooftop amenities and green space.

 

00;05;49;17 - 00;05;56;11

DP

So let's talk about the building design stylistically. Were you guys borrowing from anything locally?

 

00;05;56;14 - 00;06;21;16

JI

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;06;21;18 - 00;06;26;20

DP

So what was on the site before you guys ended up building the new architecture?

 

00;06;26;23 - 00;06;51;02

JI

Previously, there was a two story warehouse on the site and it really was kind of a beautiful space in its own right before we got the chance to tour around, before it was demolished. And I think walking around really inspired us just with these qualities of light and materials and things that were really native to the waterfront before all of this redevelopment.

 

00;06;51;05 - 00;07;00;18

DP

And the project, as I said, very large. Could you tell me a little bit about the zoning requirements and any challenges you guys had in terms of planning?

 

00;07;00;21 - 00;08;03;15

JI

So the project is as of right, it follows the zoning guidelines, the lot itself is actually split up into two different zones. So towards the inland it's mostly low rise. We had a height cap of 65 feet with portions that were allowable to go up to 100. And then towards the waterfront, the zoning actually got a little more complicated where there were a few different conditions that you could meet.

 

It opened up these different paths for how the building could be formed. One path was a one tower scheme, which would bring you up to 360 feet. And then the other was actually a two tower scheme where if one tower made it to 200 feet, the other would be allowed up to 400 feet. We took advantage of that in order to move more of the mass to the waterfront.

 

It helped gradually declined the building back into the fabric of the community and it provided more waterfront views overall, just a better experience and connection of the building, both to the water and to the community.

 

00;08;03;17 - 00;08;06;02

DP

So were there any floodplain restrictions?

 

00;08;06;05 - 00;08;49;21

JI

Yes. The floodplain has actually set one foot above the highest point of the site, which is the most inland. And then the site gradually slopes down another 6 to 7 feet towards the water. So much of the initial design strategy of the project was finding ways to transition from the ground to above that floodplain elevation. And we accomplished this a number of ways.

 

We actually set the building back the distance from the lot line as we get closer to the water, and this allows us to use landscaping as a way to gradually transition back up to that flood elevation, as well as moving all of our program spaces above and then moving more utilitarian spaces such as bike rooms down below the flood elevation.

 

00;08;49;24 - 00;09;12;26

DP

So I'm thinking about our listeners, how to describe the site because we have a series of buildings here. Is there a simple way for you to explain the building plans on the site? So first we describe the shape of the site and plan, and then if you could give us an idea about how those buildings are organized on the site.

 

00;09;12;29 - 00;09;40;18

JI

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block and on three sides, on the north, the east and the south, we have streets and then the west side is the waterfront. It's the East River. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape, where they start up in the northwest corner, move around down West Street and then below, creating a view that opens up towards the water.

 

00;09;40;20 - 00;09;43;19

DP

So it's really all about the views, which it should be.

 

00;09;43;21 - 00;09;58;19

JI

Yes, it's something that it needs to be on the waterfront as well as it is about the views back into the neighborhood. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;09;58;22 - 00;10;08;12

DP

So tell us a little bit about the material choices. You've got a series of different materials and colors there. What were the decisions behind that?

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;11;00;05

JI

The building massing itself is broken up into five unique buildings and out of those we have two towers that are precast, and those are the buildings on the waterfront and then inland. There are three different buildings that range from ten stories to six stories. And those three buildings are brick. And that we really wanted to draw back from a lot of our inspirations in the Greenpoint community.

 

There's no shortage of brick precedents there. There's beautiful buildings such as the Astral, which is this Queen Ann red brick Terracotta building. There's St Anthony's Church, which is red brick and limestone trim. It's really beautiful, striking building. We looked towards kind of the history of the waterfront, those manufacturing, industrial buildings, and used that precedent to define these brick colors, these three different brick buildings.

 

00;11;00;08 - 00;11;28;28

DP

So interestingly, the facades. So we've got the shorter, or we've got the less tall architecture, which are brick buildings, and the facades are a series of what I'll call punctures with spandrel, it looks like spandrel brick in between each one of these vertically in between each one of the window openings, correct? Yes. So how many studies did you guys end up doing to decide what these facades looked like?

 

00;11;29;00 - 00;12;07;13

JI

Everything kind of melded together at some point. It's hard to break it down into a number because it was just this completely iterative process where we'd look at something, we'd make a model, we draw it, we'd look at it again, we'd make another model, we draw it. And this evolved from the concept schematic designs all the way through to the construction document development.

 

This idea of the different brick details that actually came from wanting to streamline the project. So we used the same details on each of the brick buildings, but we remixed them in each one. We use them in a different order to create a different identity for each of these.

 

00;12;07;20 - 00;12;25;01

DP

I think what's really interesting about these facades too, so you separate the facade these into squares or rectangles, and then they have this very, well, it looks subtle in elevation from far away, but it's actually a very large construction joint in between each one of these square rectangular panels, correct?

 

00;12;25;03 - 00;12;40;03

JI

Yes. We use that construction joint and we overemphasize it. We use this double soldier coursing reveal as a way to further break up the massing and kind of imply this subdivisions within the buildings.

 

00;12;40;06 - 00;12;43;17

DP

And how deep is that? Is that one brick thickness?

 

00;12;43;22 - 00;12;44;20

JI

It's two inches.

 

00;12;44;20 - 00;12;55;11

DP

Two inches. It's nice because when you look at the facade, I mean, it looks quite homogenous. But if you look at it a little bit more deeply, it's separated in these squares and rectangles. Very pretty.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;14;27

JI

Yeah, that's the effect that we really want to go for in terms of how this fits into the fabric of Greenpoint. We like the idea of there being this large scale massing that breaks down and continues to break down the closer you get and it relates to more your scale relative to the way that you're viewing it.

 

00;13;15;00 - 00;13;22;07

DP

It really does scale the architecture nicely. So how about the building review with the city? Was that time consuming?

 

00;13;22;09 - 00;13;34;17

JI

Not at all. As I said, we were as of right building. So working through the construction documents, we were also working through permitting at the same time. It was a very easy flow from one stage to the next.

 

00;13;34;19 - 00;13;37;18

DP

Now, did you guys work in 2D and in 3D?

 

00;13;37;26 - 00;13;46;28

JI

Yes. 2D, 3D, physical models, sketches. Things were being passed around the office for a year and a half related to this.

 

00;13;47;01 - 00;13;51;00

DP

Do you work in Revit or AutoCAD or ArchiCAD?

 

00;13;51;02 - 00;13;58;26

JI

We're primarily a Revit office. We use Revit for our project delivery. We also do a bit of work in AutoCAD and in Rhino.

 

00;13;59;02 - 00;14;03;24

DP

So when you did presentation with the clients, did you show them three dimensional images and models?

 

00;14;04;01 - 00;14;31;01

JI

Yes, there is a lot of modeling. We actually very early on in the project, we built this eight foot long model of the Greenpoint waterfront, and we were working through just several dozens of iterations of the massing, the two towers, a one tower option, and we were all just spread out around the table, around this model, flipping through the different massings and trying to figure out what worked best with what else we were seeing on the waterfront.

 

00;14;31;04 - 00;14;33;00

DP

I bet the client really enjoyed that.

 

00;14;33;00 - 00;14;36;26

JI

It was a blast. Every office meeting was always a mini party.

 

00;14;36;28 - 00;14;57;08

DP

Yeah, clients love models. I mean, they love 3D images. I'm sure when you showed them these three dimensional images, particularly the towers, which are really quite beautiful, the way the facades step back and move forward. And they're just, the architecture is very interesting. So I'm sure they really enjoyed it, especially when they saw the first renderings.

 

00;14;57;10 - 00;15;12;11

JI

Yeah, again, it was a lot of fun and all these models were tactile and interactive, so it gave us a chance to move some of these blocks and figure out the correct portion, the correct distance that we'd want things to overhang to shift and slide past each other.

 

00;15;12;14 - 00;15;17;06

DP

So how many people worked on the project? How many people were involved in the office on the team?

 

00;15;17;11 - 00;15;44;07

JI

It fluctuated throughout phase. I think at the height of it we had around 12 people total, and that's assembling the full construction package, Through concept the team was a bit smaller, we maybe 4 to 6 and this is also spread out between a few of the different locations of our offices. So we had a team in our San Juan, Puerto Rico office and a team at our New York office, both working hand in hand on this.

 

00;15;44;09 - 00;16;06;15

DP

You know, as an aside, what's really pretty, the red brick that you guys use there, there are a lot of lighter bricks in that facade. And so it makes it look almost pink in color. But you get up close to it and you can see a lot of variations in these colors, in the red colored brick, a lot of like I'll call it value, but it's light and dark red brick.

 

00;16;06;18 - 00;17;10;16

JI

For that facade we're using a blended brick and we wanted that to echo some of the red brick buildings that you already see on West Street on the waterfront. That was kind of our launching point for coming up with this brick palette. We knew that there was going to be a red brick building. We knew that it was going to be relative to those warehouses and then the other two bricks were kind of an offshoot, based on how we wanted to frame this story of the building as you move around the site.

 

So to the north, there's a lighter brick. It's something that we see as a little more modern. We try to keep the tones of the brick and mortar and the sills and other materials a little more homogenous and then on the flip side of that, on the southern street of the building Java Street, we wanted to use something with a bit more variation.

 

We wanted a higher contrast between the grout and the brick, a higher variability within the bricks. And that's something that we saw as a little more nostalgic to some of those worker housings and the smaller buildings that you begin to see as you move more inland.

 

00;17;10;18 - 00;17;16;27

DP

Now the colors work very nicely together. So where are you guys in the construction phase on this? Forgive me for not knowing.

 

00;17;16;29 - 00;17;33;05

JI

Where currently pouring the concrete structure. We're up to the sixth floor now, I believe. We have gotten all of the brick pallets finalized. We've gotten all the precast facades cast. It's really kind of a game of assembly at this point.

 

00;17;33;07 - 00;17;41;28

DP

So, Jeremy, you're a young architect. I'm sure you're learning a lot. As you go along here, anything memorable so far?

 

00;17;42;01 - 00;18;01;06

JI

It's so hard to pick one thing. This entire project has just been an incredible learning experience. Admittedly, early in my career, there's so many different conditions, so much to consider with a project of this size that I really feel like I got a good breadth of exposure to so many facets of the industry now.

 

00;18;01;06 - 00;18;03;18

DP

Do you get to be out in the field a lot?

 

00;18;03;21 - 00;18;27;22

JI

Yes. Every week we have our owner and constructor meetings. We have bank walks on the side and really get to see the progress and it's moving so quickly, month by month. And also I live not too far from the site, so every week I try to make it out there and just see what's going on, see what's changed, and it's kind of humbling just seeing something come to life.

 

00;18;27;25 - 00;18;46;27

DP

I would imagine something this large, I've never worked on a project that's larger than a residential home. I mean, I've worked on schools early on, but working on a job that's this big has got to be humbling and profound and extraordinarily interesting all at the same time.

 

00;18;46;29 - 00;19;07;27

JI

Yeah, it's been challenging, but I think throughout all of it I've been extremely lucky just having in the support of a firm like Marvel as well as just an incredibly talented team of consultants, of engineers and clients who have really just been supportive and on board and actively participating in every step of the design.

 

00;19;08;00 - 00;19;12;29

DP

So I'd like to ask most of our guests, did you guys have any challenges finding a mason?

 

00;19;13;02 - 00;19;27;21

JI

No, actually, the mason that we've gone with bundling, we've worked on a few of our projects with them before, and the second that they came on board with the project, our confidence kind of skyrocketed. Just because we've had such a good experience with them previously.

 

00;19;27;23 - 00;19;37;24

DP

For all those young architects out there looking for work at a firm that they admire, how might you recommend young people find the right job?

 

00;19;37;26 - 00;20;22;06

JI

Well, the right job is kind of a hard thing to qualify. I think the best advice I could give on that is to just put your name out there wherever you can. Don't be shy in asking people for connections and asking people to kind of put you in a position that you think would be beneficial to you. With Marvel, actually, I had a friend from school who knew someone, and through them I was able to get my resume and I actually don't think Marvel was actively hiring. But I got the interview and it went very well. I loved everyone on the team and they loved me and I think I really landed in my right place. But I encourage everyone to really put yourself out to as many places as you can so you can see what fits for you and what works for you.

 

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;41;12

DP

I always kind of wonder is an older guy working in this field now to social media have a benefit in terms of finding work today? That is, is it easier to reach out to people that you simply don't know with your resume and thoughts about, hey, I'd love to work with your firm?

 

00;20;41;15 - 00;21;14;24

JI

Yeah, I think it plays a big part. It's playing an increasing part to Instagram as a way that I see a lot of firms work, a lot of firms putting out calls for applications for either positions or internships. It really increases the amount of exposure and it puts everything in one place where people might just passively see it.

 

And then there's also LinkedIn, where I get so many people messaging me about my experience at Marvel and kind of things that they're looking for, things that they would want to know about if they were to apply for a position or an internship.

 

00;21;14;27 - 00;22;17;12

DP

It's interesting, just as an aside, I never really thought about this, but when you said it puts things in one place, the web really does help them. It sounds really dumb, but to a guy like me who's 55 years old when I was young, you either have to see an architect work in a magazine, you visit their office and you get to see all the photos of all of their work.

 

But the web really does an amazing job of putting absolutely everything in one location, right? So you go, especially an app like Instagram, where you simply open it up, go to a page and you can see all 400 projects or 30 projects or whatever it is, and contact people at the firm in 2 minutes. It really has changed the paradigm for employment or simply for marketing and all these other things.

 

I know it all sounds very obvious, but as I sit here with a young architect, it makes me think that your world is simply very different than what mine used to be.

 

00;22;17;19 - 00;22;30;19

JI

I also think it's democratized in a way. It's given smaller firms a greater opportunity and platform to put their work out that it could be on the same level with the kind of content that you see from much larger firms.

 

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;40;06

DP

I love that. That makes a lot of sense. So, Jeremy, it's been great to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Marvel and yourself?

 

00;22;40;06 - 00;22;50;03

JI

Yeah, thank you, Doug. You can visit our website, MarvelDesign.com or also please follow us on Instagram at @Marvel_is_design.

 

00;22;50;05 - 00;22;55;28

DP

All right well, Jeremy, thank you very much again for being here. It's been great to have you as a guest.

 

00;22;55;29 - 00;22;59;28

JI

Yeah. Thank you so much, Doug.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;27;11

Tom Loftus (TL)

So we really had to be mindful of availability of product and the budget. So this is what started driving us to start playing with different bonding patterns. If we stack the brick one way versus another way, if we do a running bond versus a stack bond versus a Flemish bond, how can we play around with our stacking patterns and try to make something unique?

 

00;00;27;13 - 00;02;46;23

DP

This is my guest, Tom Loftus. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault, we highlight Tom's 389 Weirfield Project in Brooklyn, New York. 389 Weirfield in Brooklyn is a 12 story 50,000 square foot rental project consisting of 66 residential units, a common roof deck, library and cafe. The building was constructed along with a second at 378 Weirfield just across the street.

 

The building features a very unique singular masonry facade we'll discuss today. The sole decorative facade is done in undulating rail like bricks, which is in a creative vertical design. The bricks are dark and called Ebonite Smooth. They protrude in patterns at equally spaced cadence as the facade climbs. The windows are set apart from the vertical masonry bands with frames of varying height, which capture the windows between the horizontal spans. The singular brick facade was a unique way of setting apart a building that might otherwise be much like any other.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Tom Loftus has a bachelor degree in architecture from New York Institute of Technology. He also has a certificate in business management from Cornell University and is a licensed architect in New York.

 

Tom's first exposure to working in the architectural field came from a job in wood frame construction. After a number of years working in Westchester County, he brings over 20 years of project management experience to outgoing architects. As studio director, he has extensive knowledge and experience in project management, schematic design, design, development, construction drawings, design quality and project construction.

 

He's also a leader in building and maintaining client relationships, managing teams’ workloads, plus client and consultant coordination. So welcome, Tom. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Aufgang Architects in Suffern New York. So where are you guys located in Suffern? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what kind of work do you guys do?

 

00;02;47;01 - 00;03;37;20

TL

Great, first and foremost. Thanks a lot, Doug, for having me on the podcast today. I'm really excited to be here. So we're located here in downtown Suffern, right down the street from the train station pretty close to central Manhattan. So our firm is about 50 people right now. We primarily do residential work. I'd say about 90% of our work is in the residential field.

 

We do everything from low rise to high rise buildings, primarily in the five boroughs. But we also have projects in the tri state area and a few scattered around the country as well. A lot of those projects are mixed use with commercial on the first, second or few floors and then residential apartments above. The residential work that we do ranges in everything from luxury condos all the way to homeless shelters and really a range of everything in between.

 

00;03;37;22 - 00;03;39;28

DP

So how long has Aufgang Architects been around?

 

00;03;40;05 - 00;04;19;22

TL

Outgoing has been around. I think we're going about 50 years now. Ari is the third owner of the company, and when I started, I worked together with Ari and our former principal, Hugo, and they partnered for a while and he had also taken over the firm from someone else. So probably in the early seventies, if I have my history of the firm correct.

 

We started in Rockland County doing small scale residential rehab work and grew in time and in size with our clients and our work type from one partner to the next, and really have kept our foot in our roots in residential and then grown laterally in the industry.

 

00;04;19;25 - 00;04;27;22

DP

Tom, tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been practicing architecture and your role as studio director?

 

00;04;27;25 - 00;05;16;29

TL

Sure. It feels like forever. Honestly, every once in a while I wonder, am I still really doing this? But I've been in the architecture field now just a little over 20 years, and I started working in Westchester County. Small scale wood frame, residential. It was a natural stepping stone for me. After I got out of high school, I thought I want to be a framer.

 

And after getting really tired of carrying three quarter inch plywood up a ladder, I said, Nope, time to go back to school and study architecture. And from there I worked at a variety of firms in Manhattan, in Westchester County, doing a variety of different work. And when I found this firm, the scale work that we were doing, the residential work, it tied into something I loved with my single family housing experience.

 

It kind of stuck and I ended up staying here for quite a while.

 

00;05;17;01 - 00;05;23;25

DP

It's a long time practicing as an architect. I kind of say the same thing about or to myself about how long it's been.

 

00;05;23;27 - 00;06;23;12

TL

Sure, I've really grown in the company here. It's been a fantastic partnership with Ari. When I started, I came in really as an assistant project manager. A lot of my experience was not relative to the scale of the projects we were doing, although in other firms I was working in a bit of a leadership role running point on smaller scale projects, so it took a little time to learn the ropes, if you will, in the different construction types.

 

And I've moved up into the role of studio director now, so I work very closely with our senior management and the rest of our senior staff looking at our workload, our resource management, project proposals, client relationships and really stay involved with the team from the very start of the project until close out to handle the day to day operations of the office as a whole.

 

Ari, myself and our controller meet frequently to talk about some of the more boring business side of things and then the more fun happens working with the architects on the day to day and the projects.

 

00;06;23;15 - 00;06;33;19

DP

So let's dig in here and talk about this very interesting facade of yours. How did your office get the project, or is this a project that the office created?

 

00;06;33;21 - 00;07;57;02

TL

Yeah, this was actually an interesting project that came at a time when everything started shutting down right at the start of the COVID pandemic. And we had a really good recommendation from a long time client that we had worked with, and we had met a new client remotely who was involved on the construction side of things, and we hit it off.

 

We started talking and it was the first time ever that I met someone virtually and had meetings like this on screens, and we were trying to build a new professional working relationship. So it was very unique in the way that the project started. And again, we do a lot of our work really based on recommendations. We really pride ourselves in building good relationships with our client base, and that's really how the project got started.

 

They had this unique property in Bushwick and if you know the area in Brooklyn at all, it's a lot of small scale row housing, if you will, maybe 3 to 4 storeys and there really aren't too many open lots. And in this particular project it was unique. There was a large portion of the lot that had an easement that couldn't be built on it, and it provided a good amount of air rights which allowed us to follow the zoning path to do a much taller building than you usually would see in this neighborhood.

 

Most of the buildings were very close together, and that's really how it started and how the project grew and how we ended up with a 12 storey building in the middle of Bushwick.

 

00;07;57;05 - 00;08;04;19

DP

So did you guys know right away that you were going to be able to make a tall building there, or did it take a little bit of examination first?

 

00;08;04;21 - 00;08;48;13

TL

It took a little bit of examination. Usually what we do as architects is we really try to help guide our clients to bring their projects to fruition. This is the property I have. What can you build? How much can you build? There are two different zoning parts you can follow, primarily three different zoning parts in New York City that will help you establish the bulk, the height, the size of the building.

 

So we'll study that first and foremost with our clients and present them the different options. And based on the geometry of this lot, when we saw the potential to get a little height on this building, be separated from the other surrounding residential buildings, it gave them a nice opportunity to have a building with some great potential for views in an otherwise low height area.

 

00;08;48;15 - 00;08;53;12

DP

So what was the scope and the programmatic requirements for the project once you got rolling?

 

00;08;53;14 - 00;09;32;03

TL

Typically and specifically to this project, our scope was everything from working with the development team to help them flush out the parameters of their funding program. So when you work with different agencies in New York City and in the state and you're following certain guidelines to provide certain square footages and distribution of units, we work right at the very beginning with them to help them find the right mix and size of units, right with the development team.

 

From there, we work through design and construction administration all the way until the close of the project. So we really gave soup to nuts services here. Full scope on the building.

 

00;09;32;05 - 00;09;48;24

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the building design stylistically. So you guys designed quite a unique facade, while the other three facades, from what I can tell from the photos, are relatively subdued. Tell us about the main idea behind this.

 

00;09;48;26 - 00;11;17;22

TL

First and foremost, we love Brick. Brick as an architect, for us, it's really a timeless material and it's a durable material and it fits in really well to so many different urban fabrics in so many different places. In my opinion, what made 389 unique was the timing that this project was happening. It was happening at a time where the future was uncertain.

 

We didn't know what was going to come of this pandemic. We had to be incredibly mindful of the budget. Many times we like to create building facades that are two different materials having a nice dialog or different color bricks. So we really had to be mindful of availability of product and the economics, the budget, and really try to come up with something that would be unique but be something that the client could achieve.

 

So this is what started driving us to start playing with different bonding patterns if we stacked the brick one way versus another way, if we do a running bond versus a stack bond versus a Flemish bond, how can we play around with our stack in patterns and try to make something unique? So that was really what started pushing us in this direction of going with a single color brick and then really focusing on how to find a challenge enough for the mason that they don't hate us and say these are architects of the worst.

 

Have something be achievable for them. But that also will give a nice unique context to the neighborhood.

 

00;11;17;25 - 00;11;24;28

DP

Were there any aesthetic reviews of the building before you guys got rolling with the city?

 

00;11;24;28 - 00;11;49;21

TL

With the city for this particular project, there were no agencies on the city or state side that had any reason to opine on the design. We were not going for any variances. We didn't really have to go to the community board, although we did not need their aesthetic approvals. It is something that we're always mindful of working within the urban fabric and how it's going to lend itself to the context of the neighborhood is always an important consideration of ours.

 

00;11;49;23 - 00;12;01;09

DP

So let's back up just a little bit. So the building plan, are we talking rectangle, square, relatively straightforward. Then of course, there's parking on the site. You had said that there was a portion of the site that you could not build on.

 

00;12;01;11 - 00;13;07;01

TL

That's correct. So for this particular massing to make this building work, the footprint was rather small. It actually made a very efficient floor plate with a very tight core of stairs, elevator and corridor, and then apartments around all sides of that. So it really became a very compact, high efficiency floor plate with very little loss factor. And it was something that we were able to just work all the way up the building.

 

So there were quite a bit of revisions back and forth, variations that we had worked on to find the right mix and balance of that to fit within the envelope. The same thing then translated to the facade a bit earlier we were talking about what did the design iterations look like there, through the whole process of finding the right solution and the facade design that we felt was the right match for this building.

 

We did digital 3D models, plenty of sketches and even on site mockups working together with the Masons saying, We know you can do this, we believe in you, please don't kill us. And did plenty of mock ups there to really work it out.

 

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;11;25

DP

Was it a challenge finding a good mason, or did you guys have somebody lined up right off the bat?

 

00;13;11;27 - 00;14;04;09

TL

I think that's really one of the keys. You have to have really good subs. So whatever the type of work you're doing in this case, the Masons, you need to have a good working relationship with them. And often it's the architect working directly with the general contractor. But in these cases we invited the Masons into the architecture meetings, we invited them into the AOC meetings towards the end and said, Look, let's work through some of these details.

 

Let's talk through it. How is this going to work? It wasn't incredibly complex or challenging, but we wanted to make sure that the person who was directing their team to install the Brick really felt confident that they could achieve what we were looking for. We never wanted to come out on site and say, This is all wrong. That's not what we want to do.

 

And I really think engaging with those professionals early on is important to try to get the end result that you're looking for.

 

00;14;04;12 - 00;14;16;20

DP

Yeah, we try to bring in a contractor at schematic design. Once we wrap up schematic design, we have them price the project. This is in high and residential work that I do. So single family homes.

 

00;14;16;22 - 00;14;33;09

TL

Right? And in this case we didn't have a mason lined up. We didn't have a recommendation. The developer slash contractor, they were one and the same here. They had already had an existing relationship with this Mason and we started just working with them early on in the process.

 

00;14;33;11 - 00;14;54;17

DP

So could you do your best to describe the evolution of the design of that facade and then try to describe the facade? I'm going to encourage our listeners to go to the Glen-Gery site and take a look at some of these photographs because it's really striking. I've never seen anything like it. It's a great idea. The clients must have been thrilled when you presented the drawings.

 

00;14;54;19 - 00;17;33;18

TL

Thank you very much for that. We've seen a lot of example of brick facade that has quite a bit of movement in it, and these brick facades more often than not, are panelized prefab, and that's a way that you can achieve quite a bit of movement with brick using this idea of this undulation and this movement in the brick as an inspiration.

 

That's what triggered us to start thinking about how a brick pattern, the stacking pattern, really might help us achieve what we wanted to do here. So if our listeners are familiar with Brick parents, which I hope they are, we're in a brick podcast, we utilized a Flemish bond pattern and a running bond pattern. So the Flemish bond pattern has a standard brick with the long face.

 

The following brick is then rotated 90 degrees with the short face and the pattern is repeated. Taking this idea of combining a Flemish bond pattern with a running bond pattern, we now have these bricks that are half size, if you will, square proportion to create the movement and the undulation throughout the facade. We detailed a Flemish bond pattern with a large number of running bond, then a increasing increment of Flemish bond and a decreasing increment to running bond.

 

So we took the pattern and as you got closer to the center of the pattern we created, you had a higher frequency of Flemish bond. And as you moved away towards the end of the pattern that moved vertically up the building, it was stretched out with more running bond. So that's a lot of back and forth with different bond patterns.

 

Ultimately, by having that Flemish bond brick, we then protruded it out from the facade in the center of the pattern where the Flemish bond patterns are stacked very closely together. The bricks protruded the largest amount. And then as that pattern was separated and pulled apart from top to bottom, the brick became closer and closer to the facade.

 

So we basically created a formula that the mason can follow. For every increment, the brick would step out a half inch further, and this is what gave the facade that undulation, as you move up the bricks, steps out and back in by using this bonding pattern. It also created a really dynamic shadow which was something that we really loved.

 

When the sun hits the building the right way, you get a really fantastic shadow where you have that brick and it just really, in my opinion, created a beautiful cadence that worked through that pattern.

 

00;17;33;21 - 00;17;41;27

DP

So it really does remind one of Braille. So how far what's the furthest protrusion for one brick?

 

00;17;42;00 - 00;18;01;07

TL

I do like that description of Braille. You instantly have an image in your mind of these protruding points that they create the pattern. The furthest protrusion is about two and a half inches at the center of the pattern. And then as it works its way down in half inch increments, it goes back down to zero and the pattern becomes flush.

 

00;18;01;10 - 00;18;20;02

DP

So you guys said that you worked on this in 2D and in 3D. I would imagine if you did some sun studies, you got a better sense for how much shade and shadow was going to be produced by these protruding bricks? Did you do the project in BIM? Is it Revit? Because I saw 2D drawings of this?

 

00;18;20;04 - 00;18;42;25

TL

Yes. It isn't Revit. It is a BIM project. While we were in the design phase, we actually used a few different softwares SketchUp and Enscape and Revit along with AutoCAD, and we really did a series of 2D sketches, 2D drawings and 3D studies, partial facade studies. Just to get a sense of how this all might look.

 

00;18;42;28 - 00;18;49;26

DP

And how many iterations ultimately did you go through? I mean, big iterations, like is it two or three or ten or?

 

00;18;49;28 - 00;19;42;12

TL

Once we just came to the conclusion that we need to stick with a singular color brick here in the front, I'd say we probably had about ten different versions. It's a slim, tall building with very large windows, really trying to maintain a nice modulation of those windows in that spacing, but also then maintain a standardized brick dimension. So for a long time we were playing around with the inches of the bricks so that we were at a half size brick or full size brick.

 

Should we use a stack bond and emphasize the verticality of the building? How often should we introduce a horizontal element so that it's not looking like a stack of pancakes, for lack of a better expression? So really, we had a good amount of iterations here until we got to the point where we really like the running bond, Flemish bonds.

 

00;19;42;14 - 00;19;58;19

DP

I like the way you describe that. From what I remember looking at these photos, the windows are framed out differently. So you have a series of windows which have an individual frame, and then at one point in the building, that frame actually wraps a few stories of windows, right? So you break up the facade that way, too.

 

00;19;58;19 - 00;20;26;03

TL

Exactly. Playing with the verticality of the building, we did group a series of windows, two windows stacked vertically, three windows stacked vertically and created a frame around those windows. And this helped take that 12 story building and just give it a little bit of scale as it moved up the building. So these groups have two vertical windows that are now framed together.

 

Then also had the movement of the undulating brick happening between them.

 

00;20;26;05 - 00;20;28;28

DP

You guys really thought through it. It's a real beautiful facade.

 

00;20;29;04 - 00;20;29;29

TL

Thank you.

 

00;20;30;01 - 00;20;34;06

DP

So how big was the team that worked on the project? Just a few people?

 

00;20;34;08 - 00;21;17;08

TL

Every project is staffed with a dedicated associate director who are all registered architects, a project manager, and then the support staff. When we were in the design phase, we had the project manager working together with one of our designers. So we really had a team of to playing around with this and then bouncing the idea back off of the associate on the project.

 

Then once we really ramped it up into production, we would stack two or three people on the project. As you get closer to submission deadlines and trying to get into the Department of Buildings to get permits done, we would build the team up. Usually there was always at least two people on the project that were always there from day one.

 

They haven't left the project and they stayed on from beginning to end.

 

00;21;17;10 - 00;21;26;09

DP

So how long did it take to build the building? I would imagine it was pretty cool watching that facade go up. First couple stories. You must have been thinking, Wow, man, this is going to be something.

 

00;21;26;12 - 00;21;51;29

TL

You know, the construction team, they did a fantastic job. They had a really good crew out there. And around 24 months, the building went up and then all the fine details coming out of the pandemic. It was interesting. There were certain trades that just took longer because of materiality, distribution chain, supply chain, availability of product, which threw little curveballs here and there.

 

But all in all, the sequence and timing was fairly smooth.

 

00;21;52;01 - 00;22;01;13

DP

So it seems like I learned something new every project. Was there anything that you guys learned while you were out in the field or doing these drawings or dealing with the client?

 

00;22;01;16 - 00;22;48;06

TL

There certainly was. You know, I had spoken about the Mason earlier on, and that was certainly a good lesson. Building a good relationship with your Mason early in the project is really important and I joke about it. Sometimes they look at the architect's details and think, Are these guys crazy? We're not going to build this. There's going to be a better way to do it.

 

And I think that was really the big lesson we took here, establishing that good relationship and also giving the tradesmen the respect that they deserve. They're installing the work. They know some of the nuances of how this gets installed and taking that into consideration, finding that common ground so that you don't bring your ego into the conversation and giving them that professional respect and you're going to get it back.

 

That was definitely a good lesson here.

 

00;22;48;08 - 00;23;16;16

DP

That seems like a lesson I've learned over and over again throughout my career. When you're young, you go out there and you think you know everything and you've got an answer for everything, or you're going to fake your way through it, or however you choose to deal with it. But as you get older, you realize that these people that you're working with, many of them have an awful lot of experience, and it would be a good idea to sit and listen to them and actually ask them questions rather than tell them what to do.

 

00;23;16;18 - 00;23;38;10

TL

That's right. And I always find that working with our up and coming project managers and our younger staff, it's always those lessons that you try to instill in them. It helps them understand how to build those relationships because this industry is built on relationships and if we can do that, we're going to navigate successfully through any project.

 

00;23;38;13 - 00;23;58;03

DP

Well, you guys have been around a long time, 50 years. Goodness gracious. That's incredible. Congratulations, Tom. You've been an architect for over two decades. Based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or maybe some young architects working their way up the ranks?

 

00;23;58;05 - 00;24;13;16

TL

Yes, don't worry. It's going to work out, if you love it, stick with it. It's a long road. And just when you think maybe you should change your major, you might still be out of college 20 years and asking yourself, Should I change my major? If you love it, stick with it. It's rewarding.

 

00;24;13;19 - 00;24;28;05

DP

That's really funny. I feel like I've changed my major all the time.

 

My goodness. So, Tom, it's been great to have you here. Thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Wolfgang Architects and yourself?

 

00;24;28;07 - 00;24;38;19

TL

They can go right to our web site at Aufgang.com and they can find all the information about us there. They can follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter and all the different platforms.

 

00;24;38;21 - 00;24;45;21

DP

Well, thank you very much, Tom. It's been great. And I encourage people to go to the site and take a look at this very interesting building. Thank you.

 

00;24;45;29 - 00;24;50;18

TL

Doug. I really appreciate it. It was great chatting with you here today. I had a great time.

 

00;24;50;21 - 00;25;18;12

DP

Awesome. Thank you.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;15 - 00;00;36;09

Rob Clocker (RC)

This collection of blocks has several landscaped alleys to help connect people from front to back. So having pedestrian connections through the block were an important part of the planning of the project. The project itself is a fairly typical four and five stories of housing overtop of a parking podium kind of housing project, which you see all over the country.

 

But we had hoped to blend it in with the neighborhood, of course, and so had to find ways to tie it together.

 

00;00;36;11 - 00;03;34;04

DP

This is my guest, Rob Clocker. I'll share more about him shortly in this episode from The Design Vault. We highlight Rob's project, 55 Brighton Avenue in Boston, Massachusetts. 55 Brighton is a mixed use commercial project that marks the completion of the Packard Crossing housing development in the Allston neighborhood of Boston. The building transforms a once underutilized site that previously housed retail and parking lots.

 

Transform the site into a vibrant and sustainable addition to the community. The architecture pays homage to the area's manufacturing heritage. The design concept reflects the vibrant streetscape patterns and automotive detailing. The building contains nearly 100,000 square feet of finished space, with an additional 70,000 square feet allocated to structured parking. The project reinterprets the rhythms and scale of the surrounding block, while paying homage to the area's automotive heritage.

 

The facade, with its distinctive folded fan like design, draws nostalgic inspiration from the wing tails of iconic 1950s automobiles. This design move prompted by the adjacent historic Packard Manufacturing facility. The brick details tie into the fabric of the neighborhood and add warmth and familiarity. While metal panels at the top floor create a dynamic visual contrast to the brick facade.

 

The complex embraces sustainable design strategies and materials such as low flow fixtures, solar panels and groundwater recharge. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Hi. Rob Clocker holds a master of architecture degree from MIT and an undergraduate degree in architecture from the University of Virginia. Previously a senior associate at Perkins and Will in San Francisco. He's now a vice president and managing principal at Hacin, an award winning interdisciplinary architecture and design firm in Boston.

 

With 30 years of experience and award winning renovation and new construction projects. Rob's worked on buildings from office towers to land ports of entry. During his time in Hacin, he completed the Whitney Hotel in Beacon Hill, The IIDA New England award winning ideas. Cambridge Public Garden Townhouse and 55 Brighton Avenue. He's also managing the ongoing mixed use development at 41 Berkeley Street.

 

As an advocate for stewardship of the built environment, he's spoken on adaptive reuse and sustainable design. Rob is a registered architect, LEED accredited professional and member of the Ipswich Zoning Board of Appeals. So welcome, Rob. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Hacin Architecture and Design firm in Boston. So where are you guys located in the city?

 

What's the size of the firm? How long have you been around and what type of architectural and design work do you do?

 

00;03;34;07 - 00;04;42;16

RC

Thank you, Doug. It's really great to be here with you. Hacin is, as you mentioned, an interdisciplinary design firm where 35 people we take the word interdisciplinary pretty seriously. We have architects, we have interior designers, we have visual and graphic designers. And we think of that because as a concept driven firm, we like to take the idea of the design all the way from the outside of the architecture to the inside and throughout to the entire experience.

 

The firm is located in the south end of Boston, which is one of Boston's many historic neighborhoods. It was founded 30 years ago by our founding principal. David Hacin started at his dining room table and gradually built up to the 35 people we have today. And all that time has been in the South end. So in some sense, we're a neighborhood architecture firm.

 

In another sense, we think we've learned how to build buildings and do design in places that people love in ways that they recognize. We like to joke that the buildings we build are ones we ourselves are going to have to live with ten, 20, 30 years from now.

 

00;04;42;19 - 00;04;47;03

DP

So you were at Perkins and well, for a little while and then ultimately found Hacin.

 

00;04;47;05 - 00;05;36;12

RC

It's a little bit of a convoluted story but yes, those are the facts. My career trajectory had me moving across the country four times to California and back to Boston, and I did each of those moves twice. But the last time when I was in California, I worked with Perkins and Will, and that experience was quite formative in terms of some of the things we may be talking about today because we were an outgrowth of another local firm in San Francisco, which did a lot of adaptive reuse work.

 

And in that role, I was able to learn surprisingly quite a bit about Brick, even though we were in San Francisco, where you don't think of that as a building material. And there's quite a bit of historic architecture out there, as you might imagine. So learning to work in that context set the stage for some of the projects I do today.

 

00;05;36;15 - 00;05;47;25

DP

So you've been Hacin how seen relative to all of the other things that you've done in the practice of architecture?

 

00;05;47;27 - 00;06;31;12

RC

My current role, which is relatively new one, starting as of last year, I'm managing principal of the firm, our founding principal, after 30 years, and a lot of growth, decided that it would be a good idea to get a new batch of principals. So we have five of us now, in addition to David Hacin and as the managing principal.

 

My job, of course, is to try to help us stay focused on the business side of the practice, which, as you may know, as an architect, isn't the most fun part. However, it does matter tremendously, and I like to think of it as fundamental to helping us do the great design work we do, because ultimately, if we don't do good business work, we're not going to be able to do great design work.

 

00;06;31;15 - 00;06;37;25

DP

So true. So let's dig in here and talk a little bit about the project. How did you guys get the work?

 

00;06;37;27 - 00;07;38;12

RC

Sure. As with many projects in Boston, it's a very much relationship based city. This owner, the Hamilton Company, is old company and one of the largest landlords in Boston founded by Harold Brown. And in that very neighborhood that the project exists, we developed a relationship with them and they reached out to us specifically because they understood that we knew how to fit new buildings into existing neighborhoods, as well as to help owners like this company navigate the sometimes complex approvals process, which you find in many East Coast cities.

 

And Boston is certainly one that has its web of interested parties in every project. The Hamilton Company, however, because of being a longstanding company, has very good relationships with the neighborhood, with neighborhood association owns as well as the city. And so it was a good partnership in coming up with a design that would appeal to a lot of different factions.

 

00;07;38;14 - 00;07;45;19

DP

So tell us a little bit about the site, the history of the location, what was there and what you guys ultimately built.

 

00;07;45;21 - 00;08;45;14

RC

This site, which is an area called Packard's Crossing, which is so named because originally it was a location of a Packard car manufacturing plant, is a mixed use site. It has a lot of Boston rowhouses that go further down the street from our location. But the location of the particular project did have some of those more industrial uses.

 

And in the more recent years it had been transformed somewhat into parking lots and some low rise retail in ways that weren't necessarily sensitive to the neighborhood. As it happens, one of those buildings was the owners primary headquarters, and so it was a very near and dear to them that they do something on this site, which was good.

 

And because this was their headquarters, they owned numerous properties that adjoins. So they undertook a master planning process with us to think about how they could not only develop a 55 Brighton but 83 Gardiner, which is nearby and tie it all together in a sensitive way.

 

00;08;45;17 - 00;08;51;19

DP

So what was the ultimate scope and what were the programmatic requirements for the project? The building you designed.

 

00;08;51;21 - 00;09;52;29

RC

The program for 55 Brighton, on the face of it, is a fairly straightforward program. It's 77 rental units, a housing and parking garage for that housing as well as retail that would line Brighton Avenue, which is a mixed use street. The more interesting or maybe effective overlay of that program is that this collection of blocks has several landscaped alleys to help connect people from front to back.

 

The streets in this neighborhood aren't necessarily as frequent as some city streets are. And so having pedestrian connections through the block were an important part of the planning of the project, as well as part of the approvals for the project. And the project itself is a fairly typical four and five stories of housing overtop of a parking podium kind of housing project, which you see all over the country.

 

But we had hoped to blend it in with the neighborhood, of course, and so had to find ways to tie it together.

 

00;09;53;01 - 00;10;20;18

DP

Yeah, it's an interesting building. So you guys had to do a bunch of things with the architect. Sure. You used a lot of masonry out there, various colors, but the brick patterning and specifically stylistically the building facade as it sort of peels away in a number of locations. Very interesting. So the building's contemporary, particularly the cantilevered folding panels, and yet you utilize brick and various traditional patterns and colors.

 

So tell us a little bit about that.

 

00;10;20;21 - 00;12;26;05

RC

Sure. Our approach to the design of the facade, especially on Brighton Avenue, was the kind we take to many of our projects, which is to look carefully at the context. We look at not only what's built today, but what was built in the neighborhood previously and of course, like many of these traditional neighborhoods, there's a strong rhythm of bays and of brick along the street, which on one hand we wanted to pick up some kind of rhythm, but on the other hand, we certainly didn't want to just mimic it.

 

That's always the challenge we have as designers is how do we build something for today in a neighborhood from yesterday? So what we chose to do in this case, as you mentioned, is we peel the brick facade back in a regular rhythm of bays, which echoes those bays further down the street. But we do it in a way that isn't just your traditional symmetrical bay.

 

It lifts the facade apart in a sense. So when you're looking at it from one direction, you see a rhythm of brick bays. When you look at it from the other direction, it looks like a number of vertical metal turrets that are more reflective of what you see beyond because in that direction you're looking towards downtown, where you see a lot of the towers of downtown Boston.

 

So that was an important design aspect as well that you had a different experience of this building from one direction than you do from the other. And then one other aspect of that design choice has to do with how brick is used today. We no longer build load bearing brick walls. There's a lot of reasons for that, as much as we love them, but there are many, many load bearing brick walls in Boston.

 

So when we peel these elements back, we're just using face brick cavity wall construction like you see on all contemporary construction. But we wrapped it around, so it's the thickness of a load bearing wall, but you can still see that it's suspended in there. It's a little bit of a tongue in cheek acknowledgment of it's both symbolic of a load bearing material, but also it's being used in a way that's contemporary as a way to clad the building and give it a sense of identity.

 

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;37;26

DP

So let's back up just for a second. I always like to ask the architects about the project restrictions they had in regard to zoning or historical requirements. Could you talk a little bit about that?

 

00;12;37;28 - 00;12;45;19

RC

This project, like everywhere in Boston, as I mentioned, we have a robust approvals process for any larger projects.

 

00;12;45;19 - 00;12;50;06

DP

I like the word robust, it's very respectful.

 

00;12;50;13 - 00;13;49;06

RC

All the intentions are good. Sometimes it can become complex. Of course, this project is larger than would have normally been allowed by the underlying zoning, so it went through this process to approve a larger building and part of those approvals then have a lot to do with review of the design to make sure that the design is going to mitigate the scale of the building fit into the neighborhood in ways that we hope we've been able to be successful here, and that also there are elements to the design which contribute to the neighborhood, which gets back to some of those connections in the landscaping that I mentioned.

 

And as it happens on top of the rear of the building on one level, up on the parking is an extensively landscaped courtyard which is made for the residents of the building. So to this approval, we of course, had to meet with neighborhood groups. We had to go through numerous public hearings and we think we reached a place where all parties felt like there was a good compromise with this building.

 

00;13;49;08 - 00;13;51;14

DP

So was there a historical review.

 

00;13;51;20 - 00;14;02;26

RC

In this particular neighborhood? Interestingly enough, there was not a historic district review. This piece of Boston, although it has a lot of buildings from long ago, is not a designated landmark district.

 

00;14;02;28 - 00;14;27;09

DP

Interesting. Yeah, I thought the notion of showing this facade as it peels away as a thick masonry wall, this kind of tongue in cheek reference to historic architecture is really interesting. A great idea. Tell us a little bit about the building and plan. It looks like a giant rectangle, and yet you've done an awful lot with the facade and the undulations in the forms.

 

00;14;27;11 - 00;16;39;13

RC

That's one simple thing about the building is that the site is a rectangle, which we don't get a lot of those in Boston. So we were excited about that. But the housing portion component is an L-shape because as you know, with multifamily housing, there's a dimension which plays itself out really well. The rectangle of the footprint of the building has to do with the parking.

 

So the front of that is lined with retail on the building lobby. And then above that is the two lengths of the L-shaped housing. What we did with that then is to articulate those different volumes. That's also where we turn to the brick patterning to identify the different areas of the building. And we had to do this though, within some constraints of course, because this is a rental building and the owners wanted to keep the housing reasonably affordable.

 

So all of the brick we use is actually just standard modular brick, which means it's the kind of brick that we love because it's easy to lay out. It creates an eight inch by eight inch grid on the building and to be creative with modular brick, we had to do things like turn the brick on its side, create soldier courses and find ways to push the brick inward and outwards to create shadow lines.

 

And one of the aspects of these fins on the front of the building that we've been talking about is that they actually curve outward from the main facade. But we wanted to achieve this curve without buying any special bricks. And when the contractors did their mock up and brought it out in the sun, everybody to our horror, recognized that it was creating all kinds of jagged shadows because the bricks were rectangular and they were trying to create a curve in order to help them with that.

 

We actually went back to our drawings. We laid out the coursing of those brick courses and created them some full sized brick causing diagrams, which the Masons then used. They relayed out the mockups and it came out looking smooth. And this was one of those cases where what we love about Brick is it depends so much on the Masons and their desire and skill to make things work.

 

And that back and forth really, I think made the building much better.

 

00;16;39;16 - 00;17;04;29

DP

So let's start with the parameters for building materials. When you guys got rolling, did you just decide, Well, Boston's got a lot of bricks, so that's what we're going to use for the majority of the building. And then talk a little bit more about some of these coursing tapes that you use, because I did see some soldier coursing.

 

I saw some regular type of courses. And then, of course, there are all kinds of strategies to create shadow lines in the facade underneath the windows, etc..

 

00;17;05;01 - 00;18;17;23

RC

Yeah, the decision to use brick, as you say, dug was a pretty foregone conclusion. We were working in a block where all of the existing buildings, the historic buildings were brick, and it's the kind of material that really helps bring identity to the building in a way that people feel like fits with Boston. This was an idea that sometimes we fight as designers, we think we want to do something new in this city that's all made out of bricks.

 

But I think over time we've come to recognize that the fact of Brick in Boston is one that's time tested. It's one that brings identity to the place. And so we accepted it fairly quickly and then set out to figure out, well, how do we create different proportions, different forms, and articulate the building with these bricks as well as bring different colors to it.

 

So it's not all just red brick. We did use a much darker brick for the base of the building, which helps ground the building helps those bays feel like they're floating up above. And then in the courtyard we use some yellow brick, which is not what you see from the street. It gives you some variation for the expression of the building and also brightens up that space.

 

00;18;17;25 - 00;18;24;20

DP

Could you tell us a little bit more about the coursing types and the strategies to create shadow lines in the facade?

 

00;18;24;23 - 00;19;10;10

RC

Yes, we were constrained to using just regular shaped bricks. One of the coursing techniques we used was to help with the rhythm of the windows of the building. With housing, you get repetitive windows because we want to use the same kind of windows and we have repetitive apartment units. However, we wanted to create some different scale to those windows, and we use this by creating brick panels which frame some of the windows and help the windows appear to create larger patterns on the facade.

 

And in these brick patterns, we simply stacked the bricks and then pushed every other brick inward by about an inch, which created this nice textured shadow line, which gave it a little bit of depth similar to the depth the window had. That was one of the techniques we used to help give the building some life.

 

00;19;10;12 - 00;19;28;08

DP

So it's also interesting you guys ended up doing mock ups, which we all as architects end up seeing in the field an awful lot of times when we're using a lot of masonry or when things get complex. How did you do the drawings? The architectural drawings, were there 3D, was it BIM modeling, was it 2D?

 

00;19;28;10 - 00;20;38;26

RC

On this project, like many of our projects, we have both a design model and then a construction model. So early on we built the building and sketch up that lets us study forms colors fairly quickly and do variations to help dial in some of the aspects of the building which are going to be most conducive to the design as well as lets us be flexible with some of the city approvals processes when different requirements are brought up around the design development phase, though, we certainly built the same model in Revit and that becomes the actual construction model and Revit is where we really get into the brick detailing.

 

We don't draw every single brick, although we sometimes like our clients to think we're doing that. We use a combination of patterns on the surface of the model, which are very accurate to the brick module with certain areas where we will go in and manually layout the coursing because we know it needs to work in a certain way.

 

And so we do love using these tools. They really help us make sure that what we draw is what the Masons are going to be able to build.

 

00;20;38;28 - 00;21;01;25

DP

Yeah, I was really surprised when I was looking at the photographs, the peeling facade, if you will, these fan like projections. There was one photograph I looked at and you can actually start to see the curve the way the brick is manipulated in the facade. So it's not a hard line. I did not expect that when I saw that photograph.

 

That must have been really interesting to see worked out in the field.

 

00;21;01;27 - 00;22;01;22

RC

It was very interesting to see worked out in the field. That curve, however simple it seemed to us, was actually somewhat difficult for the Masons to achieve. They did do a mock up of that curve, which was not successful initially because when they laid out that mock up and put it in the sun, we saw immediately that the corners of the bricks were shadowing over top of each other, that they were struggling to make sure the crossing was smooth.

 

And so we went back to our drawings and we laid out each course a brick for them and printed a full sized drawing of that, causing to have them give that a try because we use the geometry of the curve to lay out where the corners should fall. Then when the Masons used that template and rebuilt the mockup, it actually came out quite smooth, which is the result you see today.

 

And we're actually kind of excited because that's a 20 degree change in plain between the face of the building and those projections, and it's achieved in two and a half courses of brick.

 

00;22;01;25 - 00;22;03;16

DP

My gosh, that's incredible.

 

00;22;03;19 - 00;22;08;04

RC

Flat bricks too. So we didn't have to buy curved bricks, which nobody likes to do.

 

00;22;08;06 - 00;22;16;15

DP

Did you do that by making the radius larger for that curve rather than having a smaller radius? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

00;22;16;17 - 00;22;37;28

RC

It was almost simpler than that. The radius didn't change. It's just which parts of the brick touched the radius needed to be adjusted because the Masons were having the corners and the flats of the bricks that were of course with each other overlapping in a way that cast shadows. And if we just moved those back, the shadows faded away.

 

00;22;38;04 - 00;22;44;01

DP

Very cool. So how many people were on the team working on the building over time?

 

00;22;44;03 - 00;23;10;16

RC

From the start of the project, we had just a couple of people. We had our project manager, Jeff Brown, as well as a couple of junior designers helping with the various models and presentations. By the time we got to CDs, there were five of us putting the drawings together and then for construction it was down back to just two of us getting through the various needs of the construction site.

 

00;23;10;18 - 00;23;14;23

DP

And how long was the process start to finish, including reviews.

 

00;23;14;25 - 00;23;42;12

RC

These kind of projects, tt's always interesting to answer that question because we've been working on this site with this owner for over ten years. This project was in the queue to it's the biggest one on the site, but it was one of the last ones we did with them. So the early ideas for it were probably seven or eight years ago.

 

But by the time we started the actual design, that took a little over a year and a half, then the construction took about two and a half years.

 

00;23;42;14 - 00;23;51;03

DP

So I love to ask architects if there was anything interesting through the design and construction process that you guys learned that was kind of new to you?

 

00;23;51;05 - 00;24;55;27

RC

Yeah, I think this project probably one of the more interesting and challenging but creative aspects of the project is that this client is their own developer and their own contractor. They are the ones who both financed the building and built the building, but they did hire us to design the building and of course hired the subcontractors to build the building with them.

 

But there were many times when you're working with a client who is building their own buildings that they are in a hurry because they figured they know what they're doing and they want to move forward and so very often we would find ourselves kind of rushing to stay, keep up with them. And what I think was an important lesson for us or something we were glad about is that we did take the time to do a really strong set of drawings during the design phase so that every time the client tried to get ahead of us, we had a good set of documents to help them not get into trouble.

 

That's not always the case. Sometimes clients will hurry you through the design with the thought that during construction you can figure out some more of the details.

 

00;24;56;00 - 00;25;00;24

DP

So the project wasn't bid out then to a contractor or it was?

 

00;25;00;27 - 00;25;11;02

RC

The project was not bid out to a general contractor because the general contractor was the client. However, they did bid out all of the different trades, including the masonry trades.

 

00;25;11;04 - 00;25;15;01

DP

So it was an extraordinarily thorough set by the time you guys were done.

 

00;25;15;08 - 00;25;19;17

RC

We did have a very strong set of drawings which always makes us happy and protects us.

 

00;25;19;19 - 00;25;32;24

DP

Makes things a little easier down the road. So, Rob, you've been an architect for a while. Based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or even young architects coming down the pike?

 

00;25;32;27 - 00;25;56;13

RC

Sure. I think one of the pieces of advice I have learned over the career is it really matters to trust in the simplicity of design and to keep things basic. You may think, as I did as a young designer, that you need to add a lot of ideas and things like Brick are boring. But actually if you just stick with the basics, you can come up with quite an elegant solution.

 

00;25;56;15 - 00;26;33;06

DP

Yeah, I always find that interesting, this idea that when you have limitations or parameters, many times young people think, Well, I'm not going to be able to do anything creative inside of this notion that things should be simple or minimal in some way. And yet I think that is the key to creating things that have never been done before.

 

Perhaps I love this idea that when I'm given lots of restrictions, I still have to be, I still want to be creative. So I think that ties a little bit into what you just said.

 

00;26;33;09 - 00;26;54;11

RC

I completely agree. I think something else we find about trying to stick with the basics is very often when you're trying to tell a story and come up with a concept which other people can understand, you really have to stick to the story and stick to the basics. And so these rules were made for a reason and they're really great to flex and learn from.

 

00;26;54;14 - 00;27;03;24

DP

Well, Rob, thank you very much for being with us today. And thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Hacin Architecture and Design and yourself?

 

00;27;03;26 - 00;27;21;20

RC

Thank you, Doug. It's been a great pleasure to be here today. And you can go to www.Hacin.com to learn about us or come to Boston's South End. And we're always happy to give people a tour of both our projects and a lot of the great historic architecture in Boston.

 

00;27;21;22 - 00;27;27;28

DP

Well, thanks again, Rob. Beautiful project. Congratulations. And we'll see you around Boston.

 

00;27;28;01 - 00;27;31;10

RC

Thank you, Doug.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;31;14

Vincente Quiroga (VQ)

We actually decided early on that we would adopt the one story podium and also set back sooner than we actually needed to. It increases the lighting there allows for breezes that blow through. It also allows for multiple outdoor terracing to happen. So those units that aren't particularly high and don't have the same views can step out onto your terrace and see the water.

 

And so really maximizes the value and effectiveness and the quality of those spaces.

 

00;00;31;16 - 00;01;05;23

DP

This is my guest, Vicente Quiroga. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault we highlight, Vicente’s project 29 Huron in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The Huron is a mixed use multifamily 13 story 266,000 square foot building with ground floor retail and high end amenities. In order to account for the narrow site geometry and flood zone, multiple massing schemes were studied with an objective to maximize height and floor area distribution and prioritize views.

 

The building is defined by 2 13 story towers connected by a shared lobby whose step forms narrow on the higher floors. The two tower massing maximizes unobstructed views across the East River, taking advantage of its exceptional waterfront location. Due to the building's location in a flood zone, Morris Adjmi coordinated closely with consultants to provide active flood protection solutions such as deployable flood barriers, temporary stairs, flood vents and flood resistant glazing at storefronts. Located within the building's podium, many of the Huron's amenity spaces fall within the design flood elevation, including the indoor pool. Flood resistant glazing within these spaces maintains transparency. The building's glass and steel towers reflect Greenpoint's industrial heritage, while the rough brick podium is inspired by the materials and scale of surrounding warehouses. The heavily gridded facade is comprised of a window wall system featuring I-beam profiles on the pillars.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Vicente is a registered architect and project manager at Morris Adjmi Architects in New York City. He holds a Bachelor of Arts in Architecture from New York University and a master of architecture from the City College of New York. He has a diverse portfolio encompassing various building types, such as historic renovations, interiors, hotels, art exhibition spaces, educational facilities and high end residential buildings in the Northeast, the United Kingdom and Spain.

 

Vicente also has a broad and unique understanding of New York City's building codes and requirements related to waterfront development and building within flood zones. He's currently managing the Construction Administration of 1 Huron on a 266,000 square foot multifamily building along the East River in Brooklyn's Greenpoint neighborhood. Prior to joining Maurice and me, Vicente worked on public restoration projects for the New York City School Construction Authority and the New York City Department of Design and Construction.

 

So welcome, Vincente. It's nice to have you with us today. Now, for those of you listening who have not heard our interview with Michelle Wagner from Morris Adjmi during the first season. Vicente, could you tell us a little bit about the firm? So where are you guys located? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what kind of work do you do?

 

00;03;38;11 - 00;04;12;25

VQ

We're based in New York City, near the financial district and Wall Street. We also have a New Orleans office as well, because Morris is originally from there. So we have a broad practice, decades of experience, really working first in New York, and particularly in landmark districts and contexts as well as broadening that to sort of a national practice and also very holistic practice involving urban design, placemaking architecture, interiors, furniture and art services.

 

The New York office is approximately 70 people, and I think we have about 10 to 20 people in the office as well.

 

00;04;12;27 - 00;04;18;07

DP

So how long have you been with Morris Adjmi? How long have you been a registered architect and what do you do there?

 

00;04;18;10 - 00;04;58;00

VQ

So I've worked for about six years there and I've been a registered architect for 12 to 13 years in practice. Prior to that, over 15 years of experience since graduate school. So my role is project manager and flex project architect position, just really responsible for anything and everything to do with the project from client management, coordination, staffing, everything, being accountable for the project throughout the life of it.

 

And this one in particular has been special because, you know, in a large practice you often inherit projects or people come and go. This project for me has been involved since day zero through completion, so it's very special to me.

 

00;04;58;07 - 00;04;59;16

DP

And how long has it been?

 

00;04;59;19 - 00;05;10;24

VQ

Started in 2018, so, you know, approximately five or six years. Some of that was due to the pandemic. There is some slow down pausing during that time where it would have sort of completed a little bit faster.

 

00;05;10;27 - 00;05;18;03

DP

So most architects at Morris Adjmi are with one project the entire way through and are working on other jobs at the same time.

 

00;05;18;09 - 00;05;31;02

VQ

Everyone's multitasking. I myself have about six projects actively in different stages of a construction administration or schematic and design development as well. We like to flex our brain.

 

00;05;31;05 - 00;05;33;02

DP

And how do you like being a project manager?

 

00;05;33;09 - 00;06;04;25

VQ

It's good. It's a very challenging role because you're juggling practical logistics as schedule and staffing and the finances, but you're also deeply involved with building the client relationship and trust and working with the team to get to the milestones of the project and deliver what you're trying to do, but also take a higher view and really emphasize what are we trying to do here?

 

What is the objective from a practical standpoint to meet their needs of the project, But also what is the design move? What's the inspiration? What are we trying to do and maintain that throughout the life of the project, which isn't easy?

 

00;06;04;27 - 00;06;08;14

DP

No, it's not. And how big is the team for the Huron Project?

 

00;06;08;21 - 00;06;41;06

VQ

It's ebbed and flowed. At some points you have ten people during extensive documentation process. During CA, I think we have about five people. It's particularly because it has extensive interiors. We've staffed sort of an architecture team as well as an interiors team, and then they also have taken on the furnishings and art for the project. So we have over 30,000 square feet of interior amenity with pools and meeting rooms and kids rooms, as well as some outdoor activities where we also collaborated with the landscape architects. So there's a lot of things going on.

 

00;06;41;09 - 00;06;43;06

DP

And how did your office get the job?

 

00;06;43;08 - 00;06;59;03

VQ

Well, we were selected from a RFP process with the client. They had tried to develop it into a different solutions in the past and weren't very happy with those studies. So they approached us in a feasibility concept phase to sort of see what they could do as of. Right.

 

00;06;59;06 - 00;07;00;27

DP

And did you guys know the clients?

 

00;07;01;00 - 00;07;27;12

VQ

We knew them. It's really our first project with them. We've heard of them before. The client is interesting in that they have a range of experiences of multifamily and hospitality projects in their portfolio and they're also client. That's up for a challenge. You know, the site dimensionally was challenged, the site conditions in terms of remediation of the industrial sites and also its waterfront access, those are all challenges to the design that they were up for.

 

00;07;27;14 - 00;07;33;25

DP

So tell us a little bit about the history of the location of the site. What was going on there before you guys got there?

 

00;07;33;28 - 00;08;39;17

VQ

The history of the site, you know, it's a long, narrow site. Our building massing is 100 feet in the north south direction. It's over 500 feet in the east west direction. So it's very distended and lengthened and narrowed. The original site was a one story warehouse, which was kind of the context of the neighborhood. I lived in that neighborhood many years ago, and that was the context.

 

The context is changing primarily because in a sort of Bloomberg era, there was a zoning plan, but then the 2008 crisis stalled those plans, and it took a while for that increased zoning and development to come to fruition. And so we were part of that increased zoning for the site. In terms of the massing, we wanted to take a sense of the character that was there and honor that.

 

Not all the projects that we see built really take that into account. And we were thinking, what is the context now and what was the context in the past? So we really thought about selecting a one story podium and selecting Brick as the foundation for that, and also being practical about the openings and where they're located.

 

00;08;39;20 - 00;08;45;24

DP

Right. So that's a good segue to my next question. So what was the scope and the programmatic requirements for the project?

 

00;08;45;27 - 00;09;00;14

VQ

For a residential project to build as of right and the emphasis for the target population would be families. So large units, lots of two bedroom and three bedroom units, a lot of outdoor access and the views because of its waterfront proximity.

 

00;09;00;17 - 00;09;25;13

DP

Yeah, the site is unbelievable. And you guys really take advantage of just about everything out there. It's a great project. So let's talk about the design. So first let's talk about the building stylistically. So to me it looks a lot like a very contemporary warehouse space, right? So there's lots of glass. It almost appears lantern like in the photos that I saw at dusk. It's beautiful.

 

00;09;25;16 - 00;09;53;28

VQ

The choice of materials was very specific. The neighborhood has a unique grid orientation to the world, and so it captures the light in the sunrise and sunset, in particular. The brick we chose to be a rough, molded brick with a dark mortar and the metal panel has a mica flake to it that captures the light and changes throughout the day.

 

So sometimes it looks orange and copper. Sometimes it actually looks bronze toned and it has a chocolate sienna undertones to it.

 

00;09;53;28 - 00;10;05;23

DP

I noticed that in the photographs that the metal definitely takes on a bunch of different colors. So let's back up a little bit. Let's talk about the project restrictions, zoning, any historical requirements for you guys?

 

00;10;05;26 - 00;10;56;16

VQ

So the site isn't within a landmark district, but as our office really emphasizes context in our practice. So even when there's not those kind of historical restrictions, we like to start there and say, what does it want to be? And so we actually decided early on that we would adopt the one story podium and also set back sooner than we actually needed to.

 

First, to take a cue from that one story warehouse context, but also how that kind of massing relates to the street and the experience of the street. It increases the light and air and allows for breezes to blow through. It also allows for multiple outdoor terracing to happen. So those units that aren't particularly high and don't have the same views can step out onto your terrace and see the water.

 

And so really maximizes the value and effectiveness and the quality of those spaces.

 

00;10;56;19 - 00;11;05;22

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the building and plans. I'm assuming it's along because the lots a  long rectangle, the building matches that although it steps back.

 

00;11;05;24 - 00;11;47;08

VQ

It steps back immediately after the first story. The first story is about 17 feet in height. And so there are some very high ceiling experiences there, ranging from 12 to 14 foot ceilings within the amenities alone. And that also gave us the room to deal with some of the flood constraints as well. Being that the site is adjacent to the East River the predicted flood zones right now are anywhere from 5 to 6 feet above grade. So that was a challenge and a constraint early on where we had to coordinate. We certainly decided we weren't going to excavate because of the high water table. So some of the functions that you would put in the cellar, we put a grade, but we often had to elevate the critical services six feet above where you normally would place them.

 

00;11;47;10 - 00;11;54;05

DP

So I'm curious, when you're digging that close to the water, do you get a lot of water, a lot of groundwater coming in when you're creating your foundations?

 

00;11;54;05 - 00;12;22;21

VQ

Yes, you do. Yes. Early on there was a lot of pile driving very deep anywhere from I would say 30 or 40 feet down. And those piles were linked up with large caps, pile caps and then mat foundations at the towers. The slab itself, because of, you know, you have to think more like a boat or a bathtub.

 

The slab itself was anywhere from 24 inches to 18 inches thick at various points throughout it. And it has to resist uplift.

 

00;12;22;23 - 00;12;28;07

DP

That's really interesting. So when you're driving piles and there's a lot of bedrock, how do you do that?

 

00;12;28;10 - 00;12;47;14

VQ

The nature of the historic waterfront is often landfill, so a lot of it is just trash or sediment over 200 years people just dump things in the river and it created a new shoreline, which was often the case, as you see in lower Manhattan as well. So we knew that we were going to have to go deep to hit rock.

 

00;12;47;20 - 00;12;50;29

DP

So you're driving the piles then 25 or 30 feet.

 

00;12;50;29 - 00;12;51;18

VQ

Exactly.

 

00;12;51;18 - 00;12;52;09

DP

I got it.

 

00;12;52;09 - 00;13;48;10

VQ

Yeah. And another challenge relating to the waterfront edge is we had to deal with actually coordinate with a marine architect because the edge condition was failing and we needed to remediate it. So we coordinated a new driving a new sheet edge along the shore to create that. The site actually is interesting in that it has a natural cove condition that other areas along the waterfront don't.

 

And so we recreated that in the remediation. But we also worked with the landscape architect to create this. We're obligated by zoning that create a setback for public access on the site. So they really leaned into that curved cove condition that's set back and stepped it down to the water gradually from grade and incorporated eco concrete blocks that have various pockets that allow kind of tide pool action to happen.

 

And so we thought about breaking down the shoreline a little bit and not just a hard edge.

 

00;13;48;12 - 00;13;57;21

DP

It sounds really interesting. I mean, when somebody owns a piece of property like that and it's really sitting on debris, in many cases, it's kind of unusual.

 

00;13;57;24 - 00;14;34;06

VQ

I mean, we tried to find opportunities to maximize the value of the site. With the two tower strategy. We put lots of valuable floor area up high and took advantage of the views. We made double the amount of corner units that you could have by having a two towers. We also separated them over 100 feet apart so that the West Tower really gets out there in front of other buildings that it's alongside.

 

The East Tower is set back for the east to kind of get around other buildings that could obscure it. And we were actually surprised at how good the views are as it was being built. We knew it was going to be good, but it actually turned out to be better than we anticipated.

 

00;14;34;09 - 00;14;41;08

DP

It's really beautiful about the design as the corners are opened up then to become porches, right? Terraces, is that correct?

 

00;14;41;10 - 00;15;04;06

VQ

That's right. This is part of that is a response to some zoning constraints is at a certain height you also had to step back in multiple directions. And one of the things that we like to do is incorporate our balconies into the building facade and not just look like appendages. So we really took advantage of that setback rule and created these covered protected balconies.

 

Also, it's quite windy, so that coverage helps screen it a little bit.

 

00;15;04;08 - 00;15;08;14

DP

So an open terrace meets the setback requirements then?

 

00;15;08;21 - 00;15;09;04

VQ

Yes.

 

00;15;09;07 - 00;15;13;25

DP

Wow, that's really interesting. So did you guys max out the building height then?

 

00;15;14;01 - 00;15;36;14

VQ

Yes, we had a R six zoning. We were adjacent to R eight. So there's some taller buildings in the surrounding area. But we did try to sort of maximize it. Part of also with the flood zoning, when you have extreme water table situation, you are allowed to increase up to a certain height. So we were able to utilize the various zoning restrictions to our benefit.

 

00;15;36;17 - 00;15;39;19

DP

So how long did the building review take with the city?

 

00;15;39;26 - 00;15;57;14

VQ

Well, certainly just even the public park portion we started in 2008. It probably took a year and a half to two years alone. At the same time, we were overlapping with our design and documentation, so it probably took another two years to really finish all the documentation.

 

00;15;57;17 - 00;16;09;00

DP

So let's talk a little bit more about the parameters for the building materials and the use of masonry, which from what I can tell from the photos is at the base and then the circulation tower, is that correct?

 

00;16;09;02 - 00;17;40;06

VQ

The circulation towers are actually stucco with a color to match the metal panel facade. They were really thought of as almost like a concrete massing for the podium. We selected a Glen-Gery Brick that was a molded modular brick. It has orange undertones and some brown tones as well along its finish, and it's a bit city, and we specifically selected it for its character.

 

It has texture, it catches the light in an interesting way. It's a very practical brick. And so we tried to think about just in the same way that we thought about the rest of the massing and even some of the interior design elements is to marry a practical industrial esthetic that was indigenous to the neighborhood, but also elevated and make it a bit of a luxurious esthetic as well as a hybrid.

 

So we selected the brick, we selected a dark mortar and did simple moves with the design in terms of let the program and the adjacencies define where those openings wanted to be, because again, 500 feet, we weren't over doing the modulation of that. We really wanted it to say this is where the windows want to be based off of the function of the plan.

 

And when we knew where those openings would be, we also decided upon simple detailing, corbelling of 1 to 2 inches stack stretcher, bond patterns, soldier brick patterns, which would have been indicative of the kind of twenties, thirties or earlier warehouse context. You know, again, just trying to tie it back to what would have been if it had been built 100 years ago.

 

00;17;40;08 - 00;17;50;25

DP

Well, I noticed there's a really pretty detail where you're setting the masonry back from the facade to create a reveal for the headers and for some of these openings.

 

00;17;50;28 - 00;18;03;17

VQ

Yes. And it creates a lot of interplay of light and shadow along the facade. And that was always thought about, you know, how do you deal with such a long facade that would have a lot of opacity to it, but create interest in that opacity.

 

00;18;03;19 - 00;18;05;17

DP

So did you guys draw the building in BIM?

 

00;18;05;17 - 00;18;06;17

VQ

Yes.

 

00;18;06;24 - 00;18;07;29

DP

You guys work in Revit?

 

00;18;08;04 - 00;18;10;12

VQ

Yeah, we're predominantly a Revit office.

 

00;18;10;14 - 00;18;19;08

DP

So the studies that you did initially, did you guys draw the whole building in 3D and then show the clients and so they got to see the model? Or did you guys build a physical model too?

 

00;18;19;10 - 00;18;43;16

VQ

We always start with the Revit process because it has its advantages, sort of quick moves and early viewing studies as well as planning. We did some early models, for the sales we did a full scale model of the whole building as well as the interiors. There's actually a drawer that pulls out of the base of the model and you can see all of the amenities articulated, which is incredible.

 

00;18;43;18 - 00;18;51;25

DP

Again, I'm curious how large of a set does a project like this create? How many pages just for architecturals?

 

00;18;51;27 - 00;19;11;26

VQ

That was always a challenge for the documentation was the East West Towers had their own articulations. Between the architectural division and the supporting engineering divisions, we had four volumes of documents just on drawings alone, and I want to say the architectural volume was easily 100 sheets or more unto itself.

 

00;19;11;28 - 00;19;24;27

DP

Another detail I really like is the exterior facade. So you made the piers and to some extent the floor slabs as they’re exposed on the exterior. It's not really a slab, it looks like steel. It's a really pretty detail.

 

00;19;24;29 - 00;19;50;24

VQ

Yeah, it's a simple C channel profile that's in ACM, Aluminum Composite Metal panel, and it's an open range screen. We really worked with our facade consultants and structural to simplify the detail as much as possible and maximize the windows. You know, again, this project, by its site positioning and daylighting it wants big windows. So we wanted to coordinate that with slab covers and the column covers.

 

00;19;50;26 - 00;20;01;15

DP

So could you give me more of an idea of how that open rain screen works? I mean, when I'm looking at the exterior photographs does not look like a rain screen at all. I mean, it looks like an enclosed system.

 

00;20;01;17 - 00;20;35;18

VQ

The profile clips the slab edge and tacked on to a fin that is part of the window wall extrusion. And that sort of stabilizes the top and bottom relationship and sets the datum for every floor and at every joints we leave it open behind that paneled system is a mineral wall assembly and waterproofing behind that and at the open joints, we coordinated with the shops to return the finish and bend, partly to stiffen the profile, but also finish it off and create a sense of closure.

 

00;20;35;20 - 00;20;40;20

DP

And what would be the advantage of doing a rain screen versus doing a closed system there?

 

00;20;40;22 - 00;20;56;05

VQ

It was more practical from an installation and sequencing standpoint and also just maintenance, you know, tall buildings, having to deal with caulking and repairing it later. It's a challenge and you have to think about that for clients’ maintenance. You know, it's a real concern.

 

00;20;56;07 - 00;21;32;06

DP

Yeah. I'm just getting myself familiar with rain screens. I'm behind residential work and we did a rain screen for my most recent home in New York State and was a real education. It's such an interesting system and I would say I think I tested on it for some CE units that I took maybe a couple of years ago and I thought, Wow, this is a really interesting idea where the facade is actually wide open in some ways and water's allowed just kind of move through it, dry back out again.

 

You're eliminating a lot of challenges long term by using rain screens.

 

00;21;32;08 - 00;22;01;14

VQ

I actually have an extensive experience from my school construction authority days of working on rain screens that we often would take existing schools that are 100 year old buildings that were solid wall assemblies, and we found water infiltration. We would take back the finish to the back up and create narrow cavity drainage plains with brick or precast or GFRC elements.

 

It's definitely in my wheelhouse to work in that context.

 

00;22;01;17 - 00;22;19;29

DP

It makes perfect sense to allow a wall to dry out rather than capture water behind the facades. All right. But it took us hundreds of years to figure this out. Very interesting. So you guys drew the building in BIM. You have the 3D model. How long have you guys been working in Revit?

 

00;22;20;01 - 00;22;22;00

VQ

15 to 20 years at least.

 

00;22;22;03 - 00;22;34;21

DP

Again, I'm kind of curious as an offshoot to this discussion. When you hire people, do you hire people who do not know how to use Revit? Maybe they've used Micro Station or they use ArchiCAD or AutoCAD and then you train them.

 

00;22;34;28 - 00;23;20;13

VQ

It's ever more common for them to have experiences these days. I actually didn't know Revit when I started, and that was a learning experience for me. You know, it has its pros and cons, you know, if you're an old school CAD person, but I value its ability to, you know, you move a wall, it moves everywhere. You don't have to constantly track that element.

 

And also when we're doing design options for large complicated projects, thinking about, well, what if the window appears or this dimension or that dimension, we can iterate and quickly deploy changes, you know, especially this day and age where you're dealing with value engineering, they come back with bids, you say, it's got to come out of somewhere. It's an important tool to be able to pivot and retool the design, adapt the design to accommodate these requirements.

 

00;23;20;15 - 00;24;10;27

DP

It's a really good point for those of you who don't know what BIM is, it's building information modeling, so you're giving lots of information up front to building parts like walls and plan, for example. And initially, at least in my experience, it takes a lot longer to draw something in the beginning, but you've got all that information in there.

 

So Vicente is explaining that what happens is when you need to make a change, the change is really quick because you're just changing one thing out of a series of pieces of information that you've already kind of filled in. So BIM has really changed the business over the last 15, 20 years. So do you guys learn anything interesting through the design and construction process? Maybe something you'd never dealt with before in terms of details or dealing with the client or the?

 

00;24;10;27 - 00;25;39;01

VQ

GC Well, certainly that flood design is evolving. We came up with some strategies that even the rules have changed since we started this project. So it's constantly evolving target and some of the forecasted flood elevations have changed across time. So that's something that's an ever evolving discipline of knowledge and thinking about active systems versus passive systems. You know, this building relies on a mixture of passive and active systems, some that the building is set up or either elevated spaces or the wall assemblies set up to resist water, the force of water in other elements, it's relying on staff.

 

We're trained to deploy solutions that are either barriers or stairs to reduce that access throughout the building. And that's a big challenge with any project that's in a flood zone is egress, space planning services and also mitigating cost. The developer and the clients and the residents ultimately will want to experience these views. But those views are difficult if we're anticipating flooding.

 

Nobody wants to have windows that are six feet off the ground. We were selective in where we put our efforts and said these areas are going to have the views. We're going to coordinate flood resistant glazing there. The same thought process at the commercial retail and lobby. You know, the places that it mattered. We wanted to maximize the glass. In other areas, we dialed it back down to really use opaque assemblies to articulate the design.

 

00;25;39;04 - 00;25;42;16

DP

So I mentioned deployable flood barriers. What is that?

 

00;25;42;18 - 00;26;21;26

VQ

I think of them like Lincoln Logs. Well, there's a range of options out there, but they are often aluminum extrusions that gasket together and stack along channels and they'll go to whatever height that is necessary. They often have back bracing or steel or aluminum sections. Those elements either are built into the facade already or tie back into anchor points that really transfer the loads to the structure.

 

It's a very complicated interaction and coordination of the design that you want these facade protection elements, the superstructure and waterproofing, you know, it all has to work and it takes a lot of effort.

 

00;26;21;28 - 00;26;25;28

DP

So what happens to that barrier when there is a flood? Do they break away?

 

00;26;26;00 - 00;26;27;17

VQ

They resist. They act as a wall.

 

00;26;27;17 - 00;26;28;21

DP

Resist. Okay. Yeah.

 

00;26;28;22 - 00;26;39;05

VQ

Normally they're stored in a closet until they're needed. The idea is if you have notice of an impending storm or hurricane, then you would deploy them in advance of the storm.

 

00;26;39;05 - 00;27;06;01

DP

Thus deployable. Yeah. Interesting. So Vicente, you're a relatively young architect. I say that because at one time I was a young architect and I used to tell my students that you were considered young at 40 or 50. I'm now 55, so please don't be offended by my comment. But based on what you know so far, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or even young architects like yourself just getting started, Not just getting started, but getting started.

 

00;27;06;08 - 00;27;41;19

VQ

I think curiosity and a willingness to learn a variety of things. Architecture is an interesting creative discipline because there's a lot of rigor and science and technology and law backed up into that knowledge. But it's also trying to solve a problem. You have to really embrace the learning curve of that and learning things that you may not have mastery of, but your organizing, those various constraints and knowledge is into a solution.

 

And I think that's, if you're enthusiastic and go with it and embrace it, I think you get a lot out of it.

 

00;27;41;22 - 00;27;57;05

DP

Yeah, I totally agree. I like to tell people architecture is a field where you have to know a lot about a lot. It's as simple as that. So, Vicente, it's been great to speak with you today. Thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Morris Adjmi Architects and yourself?

 

00;27;57;11 - 00;28;05;26

VQ

You can go to MA.com, our website. You can also check out The Huron Instagram. You can also visit the site. It's a beautiful building.

 

00;28;06;02 - 00;28;08;18

DP

Yeah, it's a great project. Well, thank you very much, Vicente.

 

00;28;08;22 - 00;28;12;23

VQ

Thank you.