Design Vault Ep. 30 TCS Hall with Kent Suhrbier

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;03 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;44;27

Kent Suhrbier (KS)

The one thing that then really influenced the design of the building was meeting a kind of very wide floor plate that could accommodate sort of larger laboratory spaces in addition to lots of perimeter office and workspaces. And so this is an asymmetrical core where we pull everything to one side. We then also cut a big connective series of stairs and interlocking spaces through the center of the building that also gave us some ability to have a relationship between the all the tenants within the building so that they can see each other, experience what's going on with each other, but not be in each other's business.

 

00;00;44;29 - 00;03;45;00

DP

This is my guest, Kent Suhrbier. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault, we highlight Kent's project, TCS Hall at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Carnegie Mellon University built TCS Hall, which is a new academic building on Forbes Avenue at the western edge of its campus. The project aimed to allow for future expansion and create connections between the campus and the nearby community.

 

It was designed to accommodate both private and university users, providing flexible spaces for collaboration while respecting the need for privacy. The finished project, an 88,000 square foot LEED gold certified facility, was done in collaboration with Tata Consultancy Services. The building houses the Institute for Software Research, the Master of Science in Computational Finance Program, the Center for Business Engagement and the TCS Think Tank, all of which promote academic research, innovation and professional development.

 

The partnered brickwork drew inspiration from the original Horn Postle campus architecture, reflecting the economic significance of brick as a building material in Pittsburgh. This was combined with terracotta and glass to create a balanced, contemporary aesthetic. Various colors and coursing a brick appear across the elevations, such as running bond, stacked and soldier. The brick walls subtly undulate as they mix with flat, dark window bars that dance across the facade.

 

A cost effective approach was taken to create the rhythmic facade pattern using the logic of binary base code to develop the esthetic modules. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Kent Suhrbier holds a Bachelor of Architecture from Carnegie Mellon University and is a fellow of the AIA. He's also a principal at Bohlin Cywinski Jackson’s Pittsburgh studio.

 

His work for them includes civic facilities, museums, centers for engineering and innovation, corporate headquarters and university laboratories. The core theme of his diverse experience is his commitment to crafting spaces that define new paradigms, as has been the case on projects like the Frick Environmental Center and Carnegie Mellon Universities ANSYS and TCS halls. His approach to design values, evocative spaces that maintain a thoughtful sensitivity to the natural environment and the communities they serve.

 

Kent has spent many years teaching the practice of architecture and is deeply committed to mentoring and nurturing the next generation of designers. He's currently an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University. So welcome, Kent. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about balance, a Bohlin Cywinski Jackson studio.

 

00;03;45;02 - 00;04;30;09

KS

That's a pleasure, Doug. So we're a national practice with studios across the country. Our Pittsburgh studio has been here for little more than 45 years, and it's always been located in the center of downtown Pittsburgh. And similar to kind of all of our groups, works on a blend of typologies in terms of buildings. So we do everything from residential to multifamily.

 

But at the core of a lot of our work is our university buildings and university projects. And we've been fortunate in the Pittsburgh region to have a very long relationship with Carnegie Mellon that goes back to originally the software engineering Institute and then the Intelligent workplace. And then in more recent years, working on the work with ANSYS Hall and now TCS Hall.

 

00;04;30;16 - 00;04;36;22

DP

And this is a big firm. So you guys have studios across the United States. Where are they and what's the overall size of the business?

 

00;04;36;24 - 00;05;04;05

KS

We're not that large. We are about 100 people and we're located in studios in Seattle, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Wilkes-Barre. We started in Pennsylvania. We still have a strong presence in Pennsylvania, but we also, over the years, have created quite a strong studio in Seattle. All the studios develop really about this idea of craft. And so each one kind of has settled in that nature in their place.

 

00;05;04;07 - 00;05;07;11

DP

So you've been an architect for some time over 30 years, right?

 

00;05;07;14 - 00;05;09;06

KS

Yes.

 

00;05;09;08 - 00;05;15;08

DP

Time flies. So tell us a little bit about your experience as an architect. Have you always worked for BCJ?

 

00;05;15;11 - 00;05;29;06

KS

I worked for BCJ early in my career and then went and had my own practice for a number of years while I was teaching and then had an opportunity to come back to BCJ in the Pittsburgh studio about ten years ago. And we've been at it ever since.

 

00;05;29;08 - 00;05;32;09

DP

And have you taught anywhere other than Carnegie Mellon?

 

00;05;32;12 - 00;05;37;18

KS

No. Lots of critiques and reviews, but most of my teaching has been based at CMU.

 

00;05;37;21 - 00;05;43;01

DP

So let's dig in here and talk about the project. So how did your office get the project?

 

00;05;43;03 - 00;06;30;02

KS

We were working currently with the university on ANSYS Hall. The university had gone down a path with a slightly different project. It was not working for the combination of the university and the private partner, and so they had decided to actually stop that project and take a different direction. And that's when we were brought in, which was a fantastic opportunity, but also meant that we were in the position of having to work very quickly because this was a project where once you change direction, everybody wants to hold the schedule, hold the original parameters for the work and the project.

 

And so that put some additional pressures on the work. But at the same time, I think really brought the team together to focus in a way that was actually really advantageous.

 

00;06;30;04 - 00;06;46;26

DP

That's interesting. One of the most important things we do as architects is manage the client's expectations, right? So you get that project and then you've got to say, Well, we're going to move very quickly as quickly as we can, but we're going to end up spending a little bit more time than you might think getting rolling here.

 

00;06;46;29 - 00;07;23;09

KS

Yeah, and there was certainly that in the planning and what I think it meant is some of the things happened in parallel. More things were probably run in parallel than you might do on a traditional project and process, which I think actually then allowed us a little bit of freedom to do some experimentation with the materials. We had a very good construction management partner who was on board at the same time we were, which on a project like this where you're moving quickly and you have a fixed budget is essential because every decision has to be made in the context of design, budget and schedule.

 

00;07;23;11 - 00;07;26;21

DP

So could you give us a little history of the location?

 

00;07;26;24 - 00;09;03;18

KS

Sure. The location of this, it really drove and I think opened this the opportunity for this project to kind of have the character that it does. As you stated, it draws on the traditional Horn Postle tan & buff brick that defines most of Carnegie Mellon's campus and its original. It's a campus that was developed around 1905 that was a design competition, essentially in a traditional Beaux Arts style.

 

And then it's evolved with a whole series of much more contemporary buildings throughout the 100 and some years since then. And this specific building is on a brownfield site. Pittsburgh is defined also by these very deep ravines. We have a very deep topography to the city. And so the site for this project is actually on the other edge of the ravine from the main campus.

 

It's sort of the first building of a new quadrant that is actually at the fringe, kind of between the edge of Carnegie Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh. They share a boundary between each other along this kind of eastern edge of Carnegie Mellon. And so what that meant is we could use the material to tie it to the campus.

 

But in terms of stylistic, but there was also this drive from both the university and from the private partner with TCS keys to make this something very nontraditional. So this was a task of how to use brick in ways that are not historic or traditional in any way. So leverage the material, but not necessarily alter the details.

 

00;09;03;20 - 00;09;06;15

DP

So the client knew this was going to be a contemporary building.

 

00;09;06;22 - 00;09;10;16

KS

They did. I think we were fortunate in that they were insistent.

 

00;09;10;18 - 00;09;19;01

DP

Well, they chose your firm. It makes perfect sense. So what was the scope and programmatic requirements for the project?

 

00;09;19;03 - 00;10;45;10

KS

So in your intro, I think you hit most of the stakeholders and there's even a couple more since then because there were some spaces that weren't even fit out when we were doing the building, but it needed to be a very kind of flexible, open floor play. The one thing that then really influenced the design of the building was meeting a kind of very wide floor plate that could accommodate sort of larger laboratory spaces, research spaces in addition to lots of perimeter office and workspaces. And so we did two things to make that happen. We pulled all the core services for the building kind of to the west of the site instead of locating kind of building core in the middle of the floor, played in a traditional developer building. This is an asymmetrical core where we pull everything to one side and free up the floor plate.

 

We then also cut a big connective series of stairs and interlocking spaces through the center of the building that bring daylight into the center of the building and kind of create a heart between all these various tenants that also gave us some ability to have a relationship between the all the tenants within the building so that they could see each other, experience what's going on with each other, but not be in each other's business.

 

Because this is a building where you have different research groups, lots of intellectual property that needs to be kept safe between both public and academic groups. And so lots of visual transparency with controlled boundaries.

 

00;10;45;13 - 00;10;49;09

DP

So the building plan, so the site, is it rectangular?

 

00;10;49;16 - 00;11;31;13

KS

The site was a much larger quadrant where we master planned for both this building as a sort of phase one that's 88 or 90,000 square foot sort of phase one. And then there's an idea of a connective plaza and paseo that would connect north south through the site. And then there's a Phase two project that was developed kind of through a schematic level that's about 190,000 square feet that's adjacent to it.

 

You know, it needed to be a very efficient plan. So it starts as a rectangle and then it begins to inflect and kind of reflect some of the views on the site in terms of beginning to bend and open to some of the view corridors and solar orientation that's on site.

 

00;11;31;16 - 00;11;40;23

DP

Right? So at least in the lower plan, if I recall the plans correctly, there's almost like a diagonal which is cut into that first floor plan. Is that correct?

 

00;11;40;25 - 00;12;00;14

KS

Correct, yeah. So we started off in with a simple plan. The way we would describe it is we almost want the kind of site forces the views, the kind of the way you move around the site to then begin to push and pull on something that starts very simple, but then can have some more complex geometry to it as it gets pushed and pulled.

 

00;12;00;16 - 00;12;11;09

DP

So that brings us to project restrictions. So what was the zoning like on this site? Were there any restrictions in terms of the height or the shape of the project? Setbacks?

 

00;12;11;12 - 00;13;07;01

KS

Yeah. I mean, I don't know any of us have found that magical site where there aren't those we'll all look forward to when we find it.

 

The site. Had a few issues and that it was a brownfield site. It was a former gas station site. So you can imagine the fun that brings to some of the initial site work. But that also gave us some opportunities to kind of take some parking in underneath the building once we had to kind of over excavate and clear out part of the site.

 

It's right on the side of the ravine. So from a planning standpoint, we could push the building kind of right up to the tree line and right against the side of a very steep hill that did take some really good coordination with the construction manager. And this is a group, Mascaro, who is regional here but does really a fantastic job and was willing to kind of cooperate on figuring out how then to stage essentially all the facade work while hanging off the side of a hill.

 

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;10;09

DP

So how long did building review take with the city?

 

00;13;10;14 - 00;14;12;25

KS

So this one was fairly to finish our zoning question, they're both related. The zoning restrictions on the site are more comprehensive as part of a kind of institutional master plan. This is one of the benefits of working with the university clients is they in some ways create their own zoning within their institutions. So there were some restrictions. The setbacks were predominantly this idea of being adjacent to the hill.

 

It's along a very busy city corridor. Forbes Avenue and this is an area where we wanted to pull out very closely to the street and kind of hold the urban edge. But we also then had to be very careful in how to do that. And you see, like in the plans, that is reflected by undercutting the lower story so that there's more pedestrian flow, more movement kind of at the lower level, and then pulling the upper levels two through four out towards the street and then again stepping back at the top to create an outdoor green roof and terrace That's part of the think tank at the top floor.

 

00;14;12;27 - 00;14;23;04

DP

So let's talk a little bit about what I mentioned in the intro. This idea of using binary code to design the exterior elevations. Am I reading that correctly?

 

00;14;23;06 - 00;15;52;10

KS

Yeah, it was part of it, although my computer science friends would probably tell me that our coding is terrible. But there was an economy to this building that we were also looking to maintain in terms of its budget. And so we were exploring ways where we could create a systematic language of parts for the exterior that could be very expressive but also be very predictable and very manageable in terms of the number of parts.

 

And so by kind of going back to binary and saying let's just focus on two modules and let's really just break this up over the facade and let's look at how that might then create a facade that's very articulated and very rhythmic, partially because on the inside of the building we needed to accommodate both open workspace, but we also needed to accommodate the potentiality for lots of enclosed offices.

 

And what we didn't want is a kind of fixed grid necessarily on this facade. This is a space in an edge that I think everyone early on just really wanted to have something that was a little bit more dynamic that would shift with the light. And that's kind of where some of the detailing came in later. So we started basically just saying let's create a, you know, in a and a be a zero and a one, and then let's look at how we can begin to map those over this facade in a way that you can have a very regular plan on the inside, but an exterior that is perhaps a little more articulate.

 

00;15;52;12 - 00;16;06;20

DP

So you have these modules that you're imagining on the exterior and once you had those parts, you take a look at the plan and the form followed the function of what was going on on the interior in a way.

 

00;16;06;22 - 00;16;10;05

KS

Yeah, those two in our world push and pull on each other.

 

00;16;10;07 - 00;16;14;19

DP

Of course. Absolutely. Ever since Louis Sullivan and before him.

 

00;16;14;19 - 00;16;17;12

KS

Yes.

 

00;16;17;14 - 00;16;37;18

DP

So let's talk a little bit about the parameters for the building materials. So I read that approximately 30% of construction materials were sourced locally. 30% of the building materials contained recycled content, and 75% of construction waste was recycled or repurposed. Is that all correct?

 

00;16;37;20 - 00;17;17;04

KS

That is, you know, even though we were, again, trying to work fast and economically, there was still a mandate to make a building that was healthy and that would achieve a LEED Gold certification. And so we targeted many of these things. And then in some ways with the materials, what we would do is target a combination of what are some of the really significant things, and then can we find local sources for some of the really big pieces of the building.

 

So the terracotta comes from just over the border in Ohio and the brick this building is all brick from the Hanley plant. So 60 miles from here, just northeast of where I'm sitting now.

 

00;17;17;06 - 00;17;45;21

DP

So the brick facades to describe them. So you've got these flat plains of brick masonry on the facades on various elevations, and then you have these almost triangular protrusions which occur across the facade as well. Did you guys do a series of three dimensional drawings in the office? Did you work in BIM software? Did you model this thing in 3D and then show it to the client and then ultimately mock it up in the field? How did that work?

 

00;17;45;23 - 00;19;37;22

KS

Yes, yes, and yes, we do work entirely in them and we use that for what it's really good at. We also build a lot of physical models. And so all these projects we will build a series of physical models of varying scales as well. And so whether it's studying the patterning and the kind of decoding of the facade, we would start there.

 

And then as we develop, it will increase the scale of some of these models. One of the challenges with this building was the area that we had to build was a long, narrow strip that runs north south, which then means we have long east and west facades, which from an environmental strategy is the opposite of what you want.

 

And so we let that then start to influence the fenestration. And that's a little bit where this folded or triangle other elements came from because we began to think, look, we need something vertical that's going to shade the windows, right? They happened just to the south of every window and this kind of code system that we created. And then how do we make them a shape that can catch the light so that as the sun moves around the building all day, it creates shade.

 

But it also then can this be a plane that flashes with this kind of brightness at certain times during the day? And so we started with the idea of the just the form, and that came out of, yes, the digital models, the physical models, kind of getting everyone to buy into that as an idea. And then to be honest, the CM and the owner wanted to do those elements out of precast.

 

They had it in their head that that was the right answer. So, you know, instead of being too bullish about it, we said, well, let's mock up both. So we worked with technical folks on the brick side to get the shape right and get pieces that we can mock up. And then we mocked up some precast and everybody looked at it and said, The precast is terrible, let's do the brick.

 

00;19;37;24 - 00;19;41;00

DP

And did you use steel lintels then for those parts?

 

00;19;41;02 - 00;20;25;00

KS

One of the things that was a great challenge, so the building was continuous. We're leaving angles that everything is sitting on and we kind of stack the deck against the precast because the precast had to hang from additional steel, whereas we were able to get the brick shape to stack just on the regular mantle. So it wasn't meant to be manipulative, but it was meant to be economic, and we were able to come up with a way where we could kind of keep the same material and offset some of the cost that comes from doing a custom.

 

And these are large brick shapes. These are sixteen inches long by about nine inches deep. And so it's one shape, but it's a lot more substantial than a modular brick. But we were able to offset some of that by just how we were holding it up.

 

00;20;25;02 - 00;20;39;05

DP

Yeah, the brick really alters the scale of the building. I mean, I would imagine precast this massive of panels on the facades versus doing these very pretty finely tuned brick masonry panels.

 

00;20;39;07 - 00;20;40;18

KS

I'm glad it ended the way it did.

 

00;20;40;24 - 00;20;46;28

DP

And so I'm curious about software. Just as an aside, you guys are on Revit?

 

00;20;47;04 - 00;20;48;10

KS

We are Revit based, yeah.

 

00;20;48;12 - 00;21;04;19

DP

We were talking before we got rolling that you had been on Mac. Now you’re PC. I don't know much about either. I'm on ArchiCAD and have been on ArchiCAD for 25 years. Where you guys on a different software before you switched over to Revit and therefore a different operating system?

 

00;21;04;22 - 00;21;36;20

KS

We for many years were MicroStation and then we were AutoCAD by fairly early on we drove into Revit for a good portion of our work. Being able to work three dimensionally is just so important. We do use a lot of rhinoceros or rhino where we nest that in our Revit models as well for more complex geometries, things like that.

 

And so actually when we're modeling whole brick facades, often we'll use some of these other solid modeling tools just because they're a little more flexible in terms of their conceptual work.

 

00;21;36;22 - 00;21;40;06

DP

So what was the size of the team that worked on the project?

 

00;21;40;08 - 00;22;07;16

KS

It would vary from a little bit over time. We work in a non departmental way where we pull the team together at the beginning of the project and our intent is that most, if not all of that team stays intact through the construction of the project. So a building of this type, we'd have maybe three or four people kind of fairly dedicated, partially to move very quickly from kickoff to construction was really only about nine months.

 

And so we had to hustle.

 

00;22;07;18 - 00;22;10;19

DP

So yeah, that sounds really squeezed.

 

00;22;10;25 - 00;22;37;07

KS

One of the things that we do plan on is we take a very active role through construction in terms of just staying very engaged in the process. We have a construction manager who's we've already been partnered with for a year. We will make sure that it's a very collaborative process through construction. Well, we do talk about the idea of craft, and craft for us is part design, part how we document but a lot of it is the things that other people are doing, which is putting the whole thing together.

 

00;22;37;09 - 00;22;38;16

DP

Was the project bid?

 

00;22;38;19 - 00;22;43;09

KS

It was a GMP, so they would bid packages of it as part of that.

 

00;22;43;11 - 00;22;45;17

DP

Does the construction manager help with that?

 

00;22;45;19 - 00;22;47;16

KS

They do, they manage that process?

 

00;22;47;19 - 00;22;59;11

DP

I'm completely unfamiliar with that process. I do high in residential and I haven't ever worked with a construction manager, although my peers have for certain. That's just not something I've been exposed to.

 

00;22;59;14 - 00;24;04;07

KS

It depends on the quality of your construction manager, but if you have a good one, you do have some ability then to manage costs kind of all the way through. We would price kind of really almost every 2 to 3 months during design and in some cases make some fairly dramatic shifts in terms of what we were doing, whether it was restacking.

 

You asked about zoning, the building could have been taller and actually started off a story taller and we kind of restocked it and made it more compact specifically to create some economies. And then that had some opportunities for us to because we were able to create the kind of think tank penthouse on the top, which isn't a full floor.

 

And then all of our mechanicals are kind of stitched into that from a massing standpoint. So we could get a lot of both economy, but also just this is a building that you see from across the building. We didn't want to leave all the mechanical equipment and all these things kind of fully exposed up on our roof. So it was a way of really stitching it into the building and making it part of the intentional mass of the building instead of an accidental no offense to our engineers piece on top.

 

00;24;04;10 - 00;24;22;28

DP

Well it's something that happens on most pieces of architecture. I mean, it's just where do the mechanicals go? So did your team learn anything interesting through the design and construction process? Something new for you guys? Something unusual?

 

00;24;23;01 - 00;25;18;05

KS

I'll start with the positive. We didn't do these large, full scale mockups, and especially when you have a design idea that is so systematic, right, where you're saying, Let's do this one thing and let's do it, we'll make two patterns and we're going to repeat it. The ability to kind of mock that up and debug it and get all the kinks worked out of it before you get up on that, hanging off the side of the ravine, was key, that was just an essential piece because as much as you think it through, as much as you model it as much as you are sure you have it worked out, the sequencing and the constructive ability always has one or two surprises for us. And so, you know, I think that was a really great part of the process. In many ways, it's an owner who's willing to say, Yeah, let's buy a mockup and let's have everyone try this before we get up on the building. That was a really essential one, just because we were able to kind of eliminate so many issues that repeat hundreds of times across its facade.

 

00;25;18;06 - 00;25;30;00

DP

So that's great. So, Kent, you've been an architect for a while, as we've established, based on what you know today about being an architect, do you have any words of advice for your younger self or even architects just getting started?

 

00;25;30;02 - 00;26;26;20

KS

There's maybe two things that I share with our group here that I still try to live by, and one is always stay curious, you know, if you can set out each day to learn something new, no matter how long you've done it, if it's a year or two years, 30 years, that's the best thing you can do. One to keep it engaging and to keep it what you believe in.

 

And then you're constantly improving. One of the things I used to ask of all my students and I still ask of all of our team here is I am good with everybody setting out to make every mistake once and as few as you can twice, because then you're actually learning. If you're trying and you're kind of stretching, you're going to make some mistakes and that's okay.

 

And that's it's a tricky profession to say that in. I get that right. But it's also, you know, when you have a studio environment, you have peers and you have all these checks and balances. So there's ways to do that. And we still practice that way where we set out to make mistakes, but we're out to learn.

 

00;26;26;23 - 00;26;36;08

DP

Yeah, I love that. I mean, hey, you can make mistakes. Everybody makes him make that mistake one time. Learn from it and don't do it again and do your best not to do it again, right?

 

00;26;36;08 - 00;26;41;19

KS

Yeah. Then we're going to have to talk.

 

00;26;41;21 - 00;26;51;15

DP

Well, Kent, it's been great to speak with you today. Thanks for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Bohlin Cywinski Jackson and yourself.

 

00;26;51;15 - 00;27;08;25

KS

Probably the best place to start is just at our website with most of our socials and everything else link through there. And we've got some blogs there and all kinds of current things that are going on with the firm where we're hiring some of our new work looks like and that's just. www.BohlinCywinskiJackson.com

 

00;27;08;27 - 00;27;11;20

DP

Well, thank you very much, Kent. It's been really nice meeting you.

 

00;27;11;25 - 00;27;16;19

KS

Likewise. So thank you