Design Vault Ep. 4 Morgan Parc with Gavri Slasky

TRANSCRIPT

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Doug Patt (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

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Gavri Slasky (GS)

We were given the site. Needed to build as many units as we could, but to keep the center open and accessible to the public. This courtyard, this Village Green, was intended to be used by the Village for tree lighting ceremonies or other public events. The idea was to try to incorporate the public into the building as much as possible.

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DP

This is my guest, Gavri Slasky. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault will highlight Gavri’s project Morgan Parc. The Morgan Parc Project is comprised of 267 residential units situated above retail space. The nine story building is composed of a central tower at the far side of the square, flanked by two symmetrical wings, the masonry facades draw upon turn of the century mill buildings whose architecture is expressed in their strong, deep structural piers and intricate brick details.

The building facade is composed of masonry piers that extend the full height of the building, opening up a ground floor to create a retail arcade that wraps a courtyard. Large industrial sized window units span between the deep piers. The building is capped by glass, enclosed rooftop amenity spaces, an outdoor pool and terracing roofs, which overlook Long Island.

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault.

Today we're talking to Gavri Slasky, AIA, LEED AP. Gavri received his master’s in architecture from Princeton University and his B.A. from Columbia University in Architecture. Gavri started his career at Stephen B. Jacobs Group as the project manager for an 11 story 311-unit residential building in Long Island. Since then, together with Mr. Stephen Jacobs, he has designed and managed over 3 million square feet of residential new construction throughout New York and developed an expertise in building codes of the city and state.

Gavri specializes in piloting projects from conception to completion, testifying at local zoning boards, producing documentation for building department approval, overseeing construction administration and working together with the general contractor and owner in achieving building occupancy. Today, we're going to talk to Gavri about SBJ's Morgan Parc project. So welcome, Gavri.

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GS

Thank you, Doug. Good to see you.

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DP

And it's great to see you. It's nice to have you with us today. So, before we get started, tell us a little bit about Stephen B. Jacobs Group. Where are they located in New York? What's the size of the firm? And what type of work too they do?

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GS

So, we are a mid-sized firm, about 30 architects and interior designers in Manhattan, where we're on Park Avenue South and 27th Street. So just north of the side iron building there. Our firm has been around for quite a long time. The founder of the firm, Stephen Jacobs, created the firm in 1967. So, it's been over 50 years. And the amount of work that he's done in New York is uncountable. So, over this time, you go to any street in New York and there's a building by SBJ Group.

For the most part, we specialize in multifamily housing. We've done quite a number of hotels and we've diversified recently into school buildings, commercial buildings, and we do quite a range of work.

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DP

That's pretty impressive walking around New York City. Do you ever count on how many buildings they've done? Is it like a hundred? Like 200?

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GS

No, there's definitely thousands, for sure.

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DP

Oh, my goodness.

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GS

We have this old Sanborn book, and every time that we got a project, I remember one of the former principals of the firm, Herb Weber, would just shade the lot in and so he would be able to flip through and keep track of it that way.

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DP

Those Sanborn maps are pretty incredible. When I was at Penn State. My thesis was Housing for the Homeless in Times Square, if you can believe it. But I sent away for the specific Sanborn maps for that location, and I believe they were used by firemen. Yeah, they had to have been 75, 80 years old. They were updating at one point. I don't even know what they do today. Can you even get Sanborn maps?

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GS

You can. Now, everything is digitally available. You have digital tax maps. They're super precise and updated. You can rewind history and go back to see what this looked like a decade ago or a hundred years ago and see how the site has evolved. Just a fun site analysis.

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DP

Yeah. The maps have a footprint of the building at that particular location at the particular time, and then they have the heights of the buildings of various heights as you move around the building so you can literally build a model from them. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. So, this interview's pretty unique because you're in Israel and we oddly enough, know one another. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

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GS

Yeah. It's great to see you. It's been almost 20 years.

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DP

Oh, my goodness gracious.

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GS

That's hard to say. The summer of 2004, I had just graduated Columbia. My teacher, Joeb Moore, offered me a summer internship at his firm in Greenwich. My seat was actually right next to your seat. I was wondering if you would remember me. It's been a long time.

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DP

I do. I was like Gavry Slasky. Yes! I remember the name! It was a long time ago.

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GS

It was. And to be fair, I was only there for a summer.

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DP

So yeah. I joined Joeb in 1999, I believe, and I worked with him for about 20 years, 15 of those as a consultant. So, it was a great experience. He's an amazing architect, one of the most talented men I've ever met in my life.

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GS

He's an amazing architect and such a kind person. Does such beautiful work.

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DP

He does. If you're interested, Joeb Moore, joebmoore.com. Check it out. So how long have you been with Stephen B Jacobs group? Tell us more about your role in the Office.

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GS

So I've been.

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GS

At group for about a decade, and the first project I worked on, which he mentioned actually was in Mineola. It's not this Morgan Parc project. It was sort of the predecessor to this. We were working on a 300 plus unit apartment building, around the corner from this Morgan Parc project, called One Third Avenue, and that was my first project working with Stephen, and with this same client, Kevin Lalezarian.

That was a new experience for me. I had previously worked on single family homes. I worked for a year at KPF, so that was completely different, working on Super Towers in Asia. This was New York. This was something that was extremely practical. It's going to get built. It was going to get built, and fast. And the people in the office, they knew what they were doing. They done that type of work for a long time. So, it was quite a learning curve for me. That was a great project.

And during construction of that project, One Third Avenue, the client decided to go ahead with the second project around the corner from that. He had faith that he wouldn't be competing with himself. He'd be able to fill up all of his units.

We started designing Morgan Parc. That was such a rewarding project for me because I was on that from day zero, going with the client and Stephen to the Planning Board meetings and really seeing how a project starts from its conception, being in every single meeting, hearing how the building gets massed out, all the different considerations of it through the years of approvals and construction. And it opened about three years ago, during the pandemic, actually.

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DP

So, let's talk a little bit about the building. Just as an aside, so I met Isaac Daniel Astrachan a couple of weeks back. He also works for SBJ. I was a host for a panel discussion here at the Brickworks Design Studio on 5th Avenue, and Isaac was on the panel talking about the Morgan Parc project. So, I know a little bit about it, but let's get into the details. So, you just explained how your office got the project. Your client wanted to do another building with you guys. Had SBJ worked with those clients for a number of years, even before the project you came in on?

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GS

Yes. The Lalezarians are a family of real estate developers and property owners, second generation and repeat clients for us, as are many of our clients. That's what they do. They build buildings, they hold on to the buildings, they manage them, and we try to give them the best service that we can, be as efficient as possible and make the most beautiful building that we can with the budget. And they come back to us. That is basically the goal. So, most of our clients are repeat clients like that.

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DP

Well, it's really impressive. It's the most important thing for an architect, right, to get word of mouth business. You're not marketing your company all the time. You've got a steady stream of people that are coming back to you after they get to work with you, you know, the first time. So that's wonderful to hear. So, tell us a little bit about the history of the location of Morgan Parc and what impact that might have had on the design.

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GS

So, Morgan Parc is on a piece of property right in the center of Mineola, which is the seat of Nassau County. The property is right across the street from the train station, so it is uniquely located for a transit-oriented development. It is right in the center of their downtown.

Prior to our client owning the property, all that existed on that property was a single Citibank building and a sea of parking. Actually, during the construction of One Third Avenue that I mentioned before, our client, when he purchased the Morgan Parc property, moved the Citibank tenants into One Third Avenue building and making way for this second development.

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DP

That's really interesting.

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GS

It's located at the heart of their downtown right next to the train station. NYU Langone is right across the street there as well. So, it's a busy area. And on Mineola’s master plan from a few decades ago, this site was labeled as the village green. It was their sort of center, their downtown. But that was a sort of future hope that somebody would make that a reality. Village Green was actually a working name of our project until marketing came along and made it into Morgan Parc. But that was always in the forefront of the design.

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DP

So, that's a good segway. So, tell us a little bit about the programmatic requirements from the client.

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GS

We were given the site. Needed to build as many units as we could, but to keep the center open and accessible to the public. This courtyard, this Village Green, was intended to be used by the Village for tree lighting ceremonies or other public events. The idea was to try to incorporate the public into the building as much as possible – or when I say the building, the site. It's a large square shaped property. While it was a parking lot for Citibank, people would use it as a cut through, as a shortcut to get to the train station. And so that also became part of the program. The client wanted to maintain access, crisscrossing through the site so people can still get to the train station without having to walk all the way around the block. So, we created these openings between the different wings of the building so people can get from one side to the other.

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DP

Describe the building plan to us then.

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GS

It's a U-shaped building which has its tallest portion on the tracks, which is that front street. So it’s the back of the building. So that's a nine story structure at that point. It has the two wings of the “U” that gradually step down to six stories at Second Street, which is the downtown street.

The scale of the building respectfully interacts with the existing context there. The larger buildings that I mentioned at NYU and some other buildings are situated at the train tracks in that zone. And then the historic downtown is lower scale, three- or four-story buildings.

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DP

So, you're a little bit of an expert on zoning codes.

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GS

I've had my share of reading-

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DP

Right! So, it sounds to me like a project like this, you really got pretty good at what's going on with the city – what the requirements are. So, tell us a little bit about the project restrictions for this particular job, maybe a little bit about the zoning codes.

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GS

They don't quite have a zone sort of set up for this. So, what we had to do is go in and propose what it is that we wanted to build there – look around at other developments in that area and see what would be appropriate and then open that up to discussion to the public. And that project was in front of the planning board maybe four times. These meetings, which started about 7 p.m. or so, they would go till 11 p.m. they would have standing room only of people giving comments pro and against.

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DP

Their local people come to the meeting, and they want to say what they think of the architecture. So, this is like an architectural review board, right?

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GS

Sorta. You know, it's interesting because the comments were less about the architecture, more about planning, traffic, and heights of buildings and schoolchildren. So those were the major concerns that they had, but it was the democratic process. So, watching it play out, seeing everybody given the opportunity to have a voice, and through that process, the building changed as well. In reaction to that, the building got smaller.

And we were given the opportunity also to present the benefits of the building and what the building would be offering the city, because as we were designing this, this wasn't a building that we were designing in isolation from far away and imposing it onto the local town, but rather with the village of Mineola in mind constantly. And so, so much of the building was being built and designed not just for the residents but for the people of the town. And I used to go out there during construction every week or two and go to the coffee shop across the street and really got to see this downtown come together where there used to be, essentially, a hole in the middle of it with this enormous parking lot. The building has so many different facets to it, but the public side of it was really rewarding.

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DP

Well, again, a good segway. Why don't you talk a little bit about the style choice and how it reflects or relates to the buildings that are around and in the neighborhood?

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GS

So, when Stephen conceived of the design of this building, he was thinking of historic mill buildings, turn of the century factory buildings that were made of brick, that had large openings, had repeated structural piers. They were built in an efficient way, allowing for large openings to light up the factories where the work would be taking place in. And they were often clad in brick by masons who were extremely talented. And it's hard to find people of that talent today, but that was their craft.

So that was in the back of Stephen's head and a lot of the work that he did in the early period of his career in the late sixties, early seventies was adaptive reuse. He had taken these types of buildings and turned them into lofts, but at this point he was creating this new building that based off of its old historic model.

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DP

So, when the clients came to you guys and you talked a little bit about aesthetics, did they give you any historical precedents or did they say, hey, this building has got to match the aesthetic of what's around it? And then maybe talk a little bit about your use of brick and why you guys chose that particular brick and that color.

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GS

I had mentioned that these were repeat clients, so we knew them very well. We knew their tastes. We knew their preferences. They came to us, and they said that they wanted a timeless building, a building that wasn't a fad that would be dated in a decade or so. They wanted something timeless. They don't build buildings and then sell them. They build them, and then they keep them and maintain them as part of their portfolio. So, they were looking to create something for the long run.

So, I think at that point, Stephen started to think about these historic buildings that are so beautiful that they become historic landmarks and get adapted for one use, changing to another, use. I brought people to see this building after it was completed and they asked me, what was this building before? It's funny to think that this is a brand-new building, but I thought that that was actually quite a compliment. We are trying to emulate historic buildings. We never thought that we would be able to fool people that this was historic. That wasn't the intent, but it just fits. And when the client asked for timeless, I feel like that type of reaction from people that visit the building didn't know the site before. I feel like that accomplished the goal that the client was looking for.

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DP

Yeah, Issac said the same thing when he was here that people had asked how long the building had been there, you know, after the building had been constructed. So interestingly, when you go to school, when you go to architecture school, one of the first things I learned was that the architect is striving for timelessness in their work, right?

Not all architects choose to do that, but at Penn State they talked about that a lot. I found it pretty interesting. I like to ask people that come in whether or not brick solved any design challenges or design problems for you guys. And clearly it did in this aesthetic realm. But can you think of any other way that you were able to use Masonry and it solved some design challenges?

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GS

There's a lot of different facets of this building, but I think the brick is one of the key factors that brought this whole building together. It's a large building. There could have been other approaches to take using different materials to break up the mass, and you see that quite a lot around the suburbs. What Stephen wanted to do was to embrace that this was a large building and take one material, being brick, and use it as many ways as possible and unify the building, make one unified building out of it.

We worked on a few details. We worked on them and reworked them and got feedback from masons, reworked them again. We created a couple of unique shaped bricks. We were playing with all sorts of articulation, ins and outs and we ended up with a detail for the pier and detail for the cornice, a detail for a second-floor band – it was really about three or four typical details that we worked out. And then repeated it in a rhythm and executed it. And it was wonderful working with the masons on site as well, because as architects we can draw what we want, but at the end of the day it's all about the execution of the craftsperson. We were fortunate to have a great mason on the project.

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DP

So, did you guys build actual physical mock ups that were out there?

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GS

Yes, we did. We built a couple of mockups and made a couple of adjustments during that period. And then they started and they were able to start low down on the building, did a few portions, and then once they got those couple of details down, they're able to run with it. And it was a long process and a lot of brick, and the client had faith in it. I was very fortunate about that and it came out great.

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DP

So, two quick questions about how long everything took. I'd like to think about how large is the set of drawings when you're going to build a building like Morgan Parc? Did you guys draw the thing in 2D and 3D? And how long did this whole process take? Through Planning, city review, design, and then construction.

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GS

Great question. The way that we work, we work in 3D and 2D. At the same time, we usually model the building in Revit. We’ll work out the massing, the elevations, study different details in three dimensions and color, testing out different color combinations. We had gone back and forth on whether the windowsills should be metal or cast stone or brick. And we tested out these options in three dimensions and 3D models.

The working drawings at the end of the day were all done two dimension CAD, and they were, you know, as precise as we could get. It's actually interesting. The building is a U-shaped plan, but it's two Ls that are joined at the center to make this U-shaped. So, the building is actually mirrored down that center. So, we were able to draw it, one L, and mirror it. That was part of my struggle over the years, was to try to keep it as symmetrical as possible so that we can keep on using that for efficiency.

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DP

That's pretty cool. So, you really only had to draw half the building, right?

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GS

For the most part.

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DP

I'm sure there's way more that goes into it, but when you first say that, you say, Oh wow, that's pretty cool. So, the thing is simply mirrored. I'm sure there's a lot of differentiation that goes from one L to the other, but it's pretty interesting.

So, what's, kind of, top of mind for a lot of people today is sustainability. Did you guys talk about that at all in terms of using masonry, or was that a request that the client had that you guys had to keep in mind?

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GS

Sustainability is something that's viewed in every project that we do in one sense or another. Brick buildings allowed for a cavity wall and continuous insulation on the exterior of the backup wall. And so, it allows for a beautiful finish, but a very sustainable envelope. And the amount of insulation that you put in that cavity wall is really dependent on how large of a relieving angle you can get for the brick because the more insulation you have, the further the brick has to be on the backup wall. That's sort of the only limitation.

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DP

And what did you guys end up doing?

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GS

Yeah, it's been a couple of years. I don't remember exactly. We put as much as we could. We put insulation on the inside as well.

This is not exactly related to brick, but one of the most interesting, sustainable anecdotes from this building that I remember is in the excavation of the building. Long Island is built on sand primarily, and it's a great site for foundations to build shallow foundations. The sand takes the load, but another advantage of it was the contractor who excavated out the sand, and I don't know how many hundreds or thousands of truckloads of sand have to go out of this building – I didn't even mention that the building has three cellars for parking – so they went down 30, 40 feet into the ground for the entire site. So maybe a million and a half cubic feet.

The contractor who was excavating that, taking that sand away, sold that sand to a construction company for concrete. So concrete is a very carbon heavy building material. But what I like to think about was that the sand in the foundations in the site for this building, actually went back into the building process. I'm sure it didn't go to our building. It probably went to someone else's, but it wasn't just shipped off to someplace and dumped somewhere.

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DP

We always have interesting experiences, right? So, was there anything as you went through this process of building Morgan Parc, designing it and ultimately going through the various stages with the town, with the city, then getting the thing built? Was her anything that you or your team learned that was really interesting for you? It was kind of a first.

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GS

There's so many firsts. Every building process is a learning experience. There's this one lesson learned that was interesting. It was during the brick installation, actually. I noticed that there was this one detail at the corner of the building that wasn’t correct, and I was wondering how could they make that mistake?

It doesn't have the usual frame around it. The brick checker pattern just died into the side and I looked at our drawings and then I realized that the elevation was taken with a pier, hiding a portion of the elevation behind it. And so, it looked like that was the end of the building, but it actually continued another foot or so. And the mason was looking at the elevation and they didn't see that.

So, they just continued the same pattern until the end that maybe they thought there was a dimensional mistake or something. So, every week I would go to them and say, are you going to fix that detail? And he was like, at the end. And I was thinking to myself, oh, you better fix that at the end before Stephen comes to take a look at that. But he did. And that was an interesting lesson learned – to make sure that every elevation is drawn, nothing is being hidden by any portion of the building in and of itself.

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DP

Well, I think about that a lot, I go out on to the job site and I see something and it's not exactly the way I had drawn it. And sometimes you're just not paying attention, sometimes I didn't cover it well enough in the drawings and unless you're out there on a weekly basis, these things just completely get away from you.

So, one last question before you go. This is very interesting to me. So, you're an expert on zoning and building codes. So, this is an incredibly valuable asset for any office. I would imagine at some point you could probably become an attorney with all the knowledge that you have. Was that something that you always gravitated toward that side of the business over time, or is that just you were kind of thrown into it? It was interesting to you. You were good at it, and that's how it evolved.

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GS

It's funny, it's not the part of architecture that people are usually interested in, and it definitely wasn't so in the beginning for me. But the more I read through these things, the zoning – New York City, or every different town has their own zoning ordinances - there are so many nuances there, and these words that are written down there were written very carefully, and they create what you're building is going to be. And so, careful reading through these documents are critical, whether it's zoning or building code. And I came to really enjoy creating it. And it is probably the dorkiest thing, but I enjoy it and I enjoy getting emails or calls from colleagues saying, “Gavri, can you check what are we allowed to do here?” I love being able to look it up and learn. Each time I look at it, I learn more and then the codes change from 2008 to 2014, New York City now 2022, and New York State has their own codes. And then to compare in New York City versus New York State and to see what's allowed in one versus the other. They don't tell you why in these things, they just tell you what's allowed or what's not allowed.

You try to think about what is a consideration, what's the difference between New York and New York City in New York State. So, New York State has larger sites. So, their stair cores are allowed to be further away from the center. They try to direct people to have their egress stairs at the edges of the building. The dead end distances are shorter than they are in New York City. In New York City, they allow you to have scissor stairs in residential buildings because you have a small footprint and you don't really have much of a choice. These rules, they end up shaping the plan. They end up shaping every aspect of the building.

00;28;26;00 - 00;28;39;28

DP

Well, Gavri, I can tell you really love this stuff. And I'm sure Stephen B. Jacobs Group is very happy to have you. So, thank you very much for spending some time with us today. Where can people go to learn more about SBJ architects?

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GS

Yeah, you can go to our website sbjgroup.com.

We are on 27th and Park Avenue South. Looking forward to hearing from everybody.

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DP

It's a small world, man. It’s great to see you.

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GS

It's great to see you, Doug. Thank you so much.

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DP

Thanks, Gavri.