TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;13

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;16 - 00;00;20;26

JW

I think what was special about this project was that the clients were able to generate a lot of input. That forced me out of my comfort zone, think about things in new ways, and take some of the systems and strategies I had in place, but to create something completely different than had been done before.

 

00;00;20;28 - 00;02;12;18

DP

In this special series, we're unlocking some of the most powerful conversations we've had so far. We're connecting the dots, revealing hidden gems and unearthing insights that might have slipped by. All to spark your next big idea with brick. Whether you're looking for fresh inspiration or innovative solutions, this series is designed to fuel your creativity. So let's dive in.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault.

 

Over the past two decades, Brooklyn has undergone a remarkable transformation, evolving from its historic roots as a commercial and civic hub into a thriving mixed use borough that supports residential, commercial, cultural and community development. Sparked in part by the 2004 rezoning of downtown Brooklyn. The neighborhood has attracted billions of dollars in investment, reshaping its urban fabric with new housing, infrastructure and public spaces.

 

This wave of growth has fostered a renaissance of architectural innovation, where historic preservation meets modern design and sustainability intertwines with cultural heritage. Today, we highlight three projects that we've previously discussed, which all embody the spirit of Brooklyn's redevelopment: the adaptive reuse of 50 Nevins Street, the historic restoration of 102 Bainbridge Street, and the bold reinvention of a brownstone at the Z House in Clinton Hill.

 

These projects reflect the dynamic interplay between Brooklyn's rich history and its vibrant future at 50 Nevins Street. John Woelfling of Dattner Architects led the effort to blend historic preservation with sustainable and equitable housing.

 

00;02;12;25 - 00;03;47;06

John Woelfling (JW)

It was originally designed as a YWCA, as an SRO, a single room occupancy building, so all the rooms were like single bedded rooms. There was a common cafeteria and kitchen and common bathing facilities. So it was like really stacking people in. And this was like an old model of housing people that was, you know, appropriate at a certain time in the city's history, but not really contemporary residential standards.

 

What we would expect today. So that was kind of the history of this building. You also mentioned the shaving off of the north end of the building, which actually we suspected that through some research, but we didn't really get it confirmed until we got into the building and started doing the demolition and saw, oh, this is where they replaced this column with a different type of steel that was in the original building, it was riveted steel. In the new portion, it was rolled sections. We'd see the back up wall or actually the composite wall in the original building was all brickwork. It was all bonded brick wall. In the new building, in the modified part that happened when they widened the street, it became a terracotta block back up within the finished brick in front.

 

The window details were different, so it was actually really interesting to have that kind of confirmation and see it once the demo all happened. The building has this legacy of being modified, and I think serving the greater good, the widening of the street and the shaving off of 20ft of the building was done so that there would be this greater public amenity of the subway station. That would would improve the life of all New Yorkers.

 

00;03;47;08 - 00;03;56;26

DP

Michelle Todd's work on 102 Bainbridge Street in Bed Sty, showcased the complexity of restoring a historic Spanish Renaissance style row house.

 

00;03;56;28 - 00;04;38;29

Michelle Todd (MT)

It's in the beautiful original historic district of Bedford-Stuyvesant, which is known as Stuyvesant Heights, and it was established as a landmark district in 1971. So this set of buildings, it's literally between Stuyvesant and Lewis on Bainbridge. It's about 14 series of the buildings, and it's at the end row. And there are Spanish style Renaissance buildings that was created by F McCarthy, who was an architect back in 1919.

 

And the unique thing about these buildings is that it's the only buildings I've ever been in with. It has two staircases inside where there's one in the back and one in the front. So I guess back in those days, they would have the servants come through the back, and then the owners come through the front.

 

00;04;39;01 - 00;04;41;12

DP

Roughly, what's the square footage of the project?

 

00;04;41;15 - 00;04;44;08

MT

It's about 1200 square feet.

 

00;04;44;10 - 00;04;48;03

DP

And what was the scope and the programmatic requirements from the owner?

 

00;04;48;05 - 00;05;47;00

MT

Well, the original scope and program was that it was in terrible need in regards to existing structure. The parapet was buckling. So on the north facade, as well as the south and west facades, it was just crumbling. They were scared that it was going to fall down in some way. So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade.

 

But then as we went along, we started to think also, it was a beautiful building of brick in the front, and the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. Once we started to do the renovation was like, you know, we don't really need the stucco. It really looks beautiful with the brick itself. So we started to expose all the stucco, and by exposing all the stucco, we wound up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind and it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just a renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild.

 

00;05;47;02 - 00;05;58;19

DP

In Clinton Hill, Shane Neufeld of Light and Air Architecture transform a derelict brownstone into the Z House. Named for its dynamic switchback stair.

 

00;05;58;21 - 00;07;14;25

Shane Neufeld (SN)

There was this idea early on that we sketched of a kind of grand public floor on the stoop level. Basically, they knew they wanted to add to the building horizontally. We weren't yet sure about vertically, but the original building, it was wider than most townhouses, 22.5ft, but it was only 32ft deep. So the addition was necessary in order to function.

 

Basically. Then the idea of the living space on the parlor floor and with bedrooms above. And originally, as I've done in other projects, I thought of the adult level on the second floor with the kids above. They pushed me to invert this, which created a very interesting programmatic and spatial result. Basically, with the vertical addition on the rear, you end up having a terrace on the top floor of the master bedroom.

 

I think what was special about this project was that the clients were able to generate a lot of input that forced me out of my comfort zone, think about things in new ways, and take some of the systems and strategies I had in place, but to create something completely different than had been done before. So in that respect, when I first started this project, I thought about it as, you know, Switchback House 2.0.

 

I like this idea of the switch back as a typology that offers a multitude of spatial outcomes depending on the family's needs.

 

00;07;14;28 - 00;07;28;01

DP

Each project demanded a careful balance between preservation and innovation. 50 Nevins Street maintained the historical character of its prewar structure while maximizing the density of the building.

 

00;07;28;03 - 00;08;59;15

JW

So one of the really critical things for affordable housing in most housing, all housing is efficiency. And the efficiency was really driven by the desire to maximize the number of units that we could put here so we could serve the most people. So we looked at that rectangle and where the opportunity was to expand the building horizontally and located our cores, our elevator and our stairs in a spot that worked best for that.

 

And then really started to figure out where the best units would be located, where the best apartment layouts would be, and in the existing building, it was actually a challenge. We were not going to change the fenestration where the windows are located or the size of the windows. So that really dictated a lot of the apartment placements and the size. New York City has something called light and air requirements for apartments need to have a certain size window for a certain size room, and you can't go below that for both light daylight and ventilation. So the existing buildings layout was determined largely not completely, but largely by the existing fenestration layout. And then we had more flexibility in the new building portion. But that was also a challenge because it was a very limited floor plate.

 

And it really had to integrate with the existing building. We had corridors that we had to figure out. We placed the elevator in the inside corner where the two buildings meet, because that's a place where you can't really put apartments because there's no windows there. So I think we were pretty clever about putting all the, like, fundamentals and figuring out how the floor plan would come together.

 

00;08;59;18 - 00;09;10;28

DP

The integration of new structural systems with existing ones highlighted the project's technical challenges, such as underpinning foundations to support the added stories.

 

00;09;11;00 - 00;10;45;29

JW

So the new foundations were complicated. The existing building foundations were also complicated. When we did this vertical expansion above the existing building I mentioned earlier, the term heroic, and it really was heroic. I mean, when I look back on this, I think, oh my God, what was I thinking? And we actually convinced somebody to do this. We convinced a contractor to do this.

 

We convinced our client, which you know, there are great clients. I don't want to make it sound like I've deceived them, but it was a really courageous project of both undertaken by all parties. In the existing building, because we built above, there was additional load that we were superimposing on the existing superstructure in that building. We had to brace one of the columns so that we could lower the footing and increase the size of the footing.

 

And the way we did that was and when I say we, I mean, it's really the contractor that did this. We came up with the concept, but they executed it. There was a huge beam that was spanned from one column to another that supported this column temporarily, that we were going to lower the footing on, and they jacked that beam up and supported that column so that the existing footing that was undersized could be pulled out, excavated further down, and then a new footing could be introduced and an extension of the column.

 

So gutsy acrobatics to do this and the way they tested, whether that beam, that temporary beam that was put in, whether it separated the footing from the column, was I took a piece of paper and they slipped it between the footing and the base plate of the column to see if it was actually separated. So they wanted to test that, to make sure there was daylight before they pulled out that existing footing phenomenal construction, sequencing and logistics.

 

It was a gutsy project I'm very proud of.

 

00;10;46;01 - 00;10;56;04

DP

102 Bainbridge Street required collaboration with structural engineers and landmark authorities to address the unforeseen condition of the original wood framed construction.

 

00;10;56;10 - 00;11;41;04

MT

So the new wall system was still going back to what was historically done in regards to the rear facade was made out of three widths of brick, which basically is like three layers. And what we had to do was that we had to abide by what the actual once we removed the stucco, what the actual pattern was, because it was a common bond.

 

The pattern in the front of the house was completely different than the pattern in the back of the house. So once we established that, then we wanted to really make it structurally sound, and we incorporated steel within the wall. So basically you have the three whiffs of brick on the outside. Then you have the steel that was stainless steel that made sure it was resourced sustainably.

 

And then we have our insulation and then our finishes inside.

 

00;11;41;06 - 00;11;53;15

DP

The Z House presented an opportunity for spatial experimentation with its double height spaces and green roof, fostering connections between indoor and outdoor environments.

 

00;11;53;17 - 00;12;37;28

SN

We have solar panels on the roof and a green roof, 100ft² of green roof is required now of new construction in New York on residential projects. If you don't have solar panels, we kind of decided to do both. The solar panels actually came a little later on in the project, but the green roof is integrated into the addition so that actually when one descends down the stair from the second to the first floor, they look out of a window that views out upon the green roof.

 

And that green roof also, the intention is, over time it grows. It's exotic. It falls down the facade. And so the idea of the brick as a kind of monumental monolithic material that is a counterpoint to the organic quality of the roof itself. Our hope is that they really begin to work together in a lovely way.

 

00;12;38;04 - 00;12;41;11

DP

How much energy can they generate with the solar panels?

 

00;12;41;13 - 00;12;47;28

SN

Probably anywhere between 40 to 50%. You know, I think obviously in the winter, not so much, but in the summer a lot.

 

00;12;48;00 - 00;13;03;22

DP

And that's pretty cool. Across all three projects. Brick served as a cornerstone of design at 50 Nevins Street, contrasting red and light bricks, articulated the old and new sections of the building while maintaining esthetic cohesion.

 

00;13;03;29 - 00;14;22;23

JW

Yeah, the existing brick we had to undo some sins of the past, add lintels, the repairs that were done previously, not quite sure when they were done with, maybe a little bit less sensitivity to matching the brick and mortar. So that was some of the repair work that we did at the existing building. The existing building also has a base, a very formal base.

 

It's a very classical design to have that base. So we wanted to that was another one of these affinity points that we wanted with the new building. So we created this base which was a dark grounding brick. That's a Glen-Gery product. It's a Black Hills velour. The velour is the finish on the brick. So that kind of established the base of the building.

 

And then above that we did a much lighter, more contemporary brick. Also a Glen-Gary product, White Plains velour. Again, the velour is the finish of the texture of the face of the brick. And we did similar coursing. The mortar is very different. The mortar in the White Plains is its own mortar. The existing buildings, mortar repairs were their own mortar, so they would match that building's texture and coloration.

 

But through a combination of the same brick size, the same coarsening, and also picking up on that limestone detailing this in the existing building, we did kind of created this affinity between the two buildings, so they're definitely distinct from each other, but they're also kind of a family.

 

00;14;22;28 - 00;14;42;23

DP

Yeah, it's a nice touch. It ties the two buildings together. At 102 Bainbridge Street, the careful selection of historically accurate Glen-Gary bricks ensured the integrity of the restored facade. So I'm curious, in terms of color, you were able to find a brick that you were happy with. You said that matched on the exterior.

 

00;14;42;25 - 00;14;58;06

MT

The contractor had suggested. He was like, oh, this will be a perfect brick. I did research, it was a Glen-Gary Cushwa Calvert, 52-DD Middle Plantation. That was the one that was selected. And when we put it in place, it was perfect to what was there from 1919.

 

00;14;58;13 - 00;15;01;20

DP

So do all these row homes, they almost look the same?

 

00;15;01;24 - 00;16;05;19

MT

They basically all look the same. And the other fascinating thing to do with the project, when we were doing the demo for the wood infill, all the bricks, I learned this like recently from my practice, that the bricks that we were removing that were there, all had the names of the brick companies on there, and you don't see that anymore in which they were actually etched into the brick.

 

I was like, wow, it's like fascinating. So it was like an archeological project in the same way of doing something better for the building for another hundred years. We basically had to do a whole reconstruction. And that's where Glen-Gary came into play, because what happened too is that on the back of the facade, all the bricks in the building weren't the same.

 

The bricks in the front of the building were made out of Belden, and it was a different type of color scheme. But then when we removed the stucco in the back, it was a beautiful match with the Glen-Gary Cushwa Calvert Plantation, Middle Plantation, 52-DD. It was a perfect match to it. Again, we had to go back to landmarks to make sure that they were proof of that brick to match what was in the rear facade that was being used.

 

00;16;05;22 - 00;16;14;23

DP

So what's interesting about the photographs that you sent is that the building looks as though some of these walls were completely taken down.

 

00;16;14;26 - 00;16;44;21

MT

It was because due to the fact that it was stucco and I'm an architect, is very conscious about the environment, and stucco is something like concrete, and it adds to the carbon footprint. So the whole idea was that this project specifically was to eliminate that process in really being more progressive and more enhancing to the environment. So that's why we didn't use stucco.

 

We wanted to just expose the beautiful masonry itself. And therefore, by eliminating the stucco, we saw, the building was in need of much deeper repair than we expected.

 

00;16;44;23 - 00;16;53;28

DP

At the Z House. Brick brought warmth and texture to both the exterior and interior, reinforcing the home's connection to its urban context.

 

00;16;54;00 - 00;18;23;04

SN

The client had this dream of a masonry rear facade. I did too, I mean, it's what made sense. I mean, masonry is a East Coast material. It is something we see a lot here. The beautiful old buildings, you know, of the northeast are made of brick, many of them red brick. And so that was a theme that came up as well.

 

The client did have a bit of a dream of this red brick facade, but knowing that this brick would live on the inside as well, esthetically, I felt that a red brick spoke too much of exterior use and would be a kind of too much of a contrast to the type of mood and space we were trying to create on the inside.

 

A lighter brick reflects light. It bounces light around. It doesn't present itself as a color so much as an opportunity for variations in tone throughout a space. There's so much light in this house that we kind of after some time and looking at many, many different products and many Glen-Gary products, we decided that a white Lightish cream colored brick was the right choice.

 

And then it came to question, well, how do we get a white brick that has the texture that works both on the outside and on the inside, and doesn't force someone to see that as an issue in one way or the other. And so we went with, in the end, the white velour, which we felt was this perfect middle ground of cream colored was not too white, was not two beige.

 

It's not too reflective, not too matte, and had a wonderful kind of authentic handed texture to it that I think really helped the house out a lot.

 

00;18;23;06 - 00;18;26;23

DP

And use a slightly darker mortar right, so we didn't know it's brick. Correct?

 

00;18;27;00 - 00;18;44;00

SN

We tested it out. So that was the sense do we want the lines to go away? That's always a question you know architects deal with. I think we found something that wasn't too much of a contrast, but very clearly spoke to the manual craft that goes into putting brick walls together.

 

00;18;44;03 - 00;18;46;24

DP

You guys used masonry on the interior as well.

 

00;18;46;26 - 00;18;49;28

SN

We did. And those are full masonry bricks on the inside.

 

00;18;50;00 - 00;18;50;29

DP

So it's load bearing.

 

00;18;51;06 - 00;19;24;25

SN

Well, we're not using the bricks for load bearing purposes. It is a CMU wall in the addition. But the bricks take up the three and 5/8 inch width, which is I think, really interesting. I think this is again speaks the kind of work that we do is that we looked at tile products. I think Glen-Gary makes tile products too, of some of those bricks, but we wanted it to turn corners.

 

We wanted it to move. We wanted it to appear fully authentic. And in the end, I think once we had reflected on all the products available, that using the same brick, the same finish was the right move.

 

00;19;24;28 - 00;19;57;22

DP

These projects reflect the importance of collaboration among architects, clients, engineers and builders. Whether it was addressing structural complexities, navigating regulatory processes, or fine tuning details like window placement and masonry coursing. Each team overcame unique obstacles to realize their vision through their work. John, Michelle and Shane demonstrate how architecture can preserve history, innovate for the future, and create meaningful spaces for contemporary living.

 

Brick as a material unites these projects, offering timeless beauty, environmental adaptability, and a tangible link to their urban and historic contexts. If you'd like to hear more about each individual project, you can find links to the full conversations in the show notes. If you haven't done so already, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss the rest of this series where we revisit some of the most powerful conversations and unearth insights that might have slipped by all to spark your next big idea with brick.

 

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;18

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;38;03

Sussan Lari (SL)

The house had character. Typically, Tudor style houses from outside are just stunningly gorgeous piece of structure. And when you go in, it's just sad. And that is not going to happen with my approach to design, because I like the style of Tudor and I don't like the style of sad inside spaces. So it's bright and happy and is open, is spacious. You know, lots of windows.

 

00;00;38;06 - 00;02;41;18

DP

In this special series we’re unlocking some of the most powerful conversations we've had so far. We're connecting the dots, revealing hidden gems and unearthing insights that might have slipped by. All to spark your next big idea with brick. Whether you're looking for fresh inspiration or innovative solutions, this series is designed to fuel your creativity. So let's dive in.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Today we explore Tudor style homes with insights from Peter VanderPoel, of VanderPoel Architecture, who designed the geometrically inspired Guildford Court in McLean, Virginia, and Sussan Lari of Sussan Lari Architect PC, who transformed the Tudor style Henhawk house in Long Island, New York. Tudor architecture is a style of British design that emerged between 1485 and 1558, blending decorative Renaissance elements with the Gothic tradition. Recognized for its steeply pitched roofs, half timbered facades, ornate brickwork, and distinctive chimney treatments.

 

Tudor buildings often feature large, grouped windows and intricate details. While exteriors highlight rich textures and patterns, interiors are known for wood paneled walls and plasterwork ceilings, creating a blend of medieval charm and early Renaissance sophistication. In this bonus episode we’ll highlight various aspects of Peter and Sussan's project, including the architectural design process, construction challenges, and the thoughtful use of brickwork to create Tudor style homes that bridge tradition and modernity.

 

Both projects reflect a deep respect for tradition while incorporating innovative design solutions. Peter VanderPoel’s Guildford Court responded to the steep, angular site with a unique three axis geometry inspired by the hexagonal forms of Frank Lloyd Wright's Hanna house.

 

00;02;41;21 - 00;04;28;05

Peter VanderPoel (PV)

The lot as it looks in plan, in the site plan, it kind of looks like the state of Georgia and the Atlantic coast of Georgia was just a little bit to the northeast of Florida is what's on the cul de sac. So there's a very small entrance circle for the cul de sac, very small entrance onto the site, and then very steep as it goes up in the back.

 

And then these two angles that almost describe 60 degrees from the two property lines that go away from the cul de sac. And so my first inclination was, well, that's almost 60 degrees. And so a hexagonal plan would work on a lot like that. So then I started looking at precedents for that. I know Frank Lloyd Wright had done the Hanna house in California.

 

It was based on the hexagon. He had done a whole series of projects based on geometry. So I had looked at those, but it was through that less hexagonal forms and more towards three axes rather than we normally think of two axes that x and y. But this now has these 120 degree rotation that with a hexagon you have three axes that are involved in describing that geometry.

 

And that was essentially the same geometry we had on that site. So that became the basis for the design. And then with three geometries, we've got three programmatic elements of getting the cars on and off the semipublic and then the private. And then we also have this dramatic rise in height. So we could also do the same thing vertically.

 

We have the garage at the lowest level so the cars can get on easily. The semipublic now faces the street on this very narrow frontage, and then the private is up highest and essentially resting on top of the semipublic block and runs back. But because the site is so steep, it touches ground. It's a grade at the back of the property, even though it's sitting on top of the lower level at the front.

 

00;04;28;07 - 00;04;34;24

DP

The design uses distinct programmatic zones, private semipublic and garage spaces.

 

00;04;34;26 - 00;06;57;14

PV

Well, one is getting the cars on and off the lot. They can't, just the nature of cars, they can't be going up and down hill. So we need to get them on the shortest route and the lowest route, so that if you think about the site as a state of Georgia, the Florida border line was where the cars came in. The semipublic face, the cul de sac.

 

It addressed through there. And then we had stairs going up this series of stones, because one of the concerns was, that's a long way up to get to that first floor, just because it's so steep. So we have these stones on the site that are shifted. So you're sort of walking across these lily pads and then a diagonal that goes up and then a set of stairs.

 

So there's a variety of experiences moving towards the front of the house. We also have the office portion now is right inside the front door. So if someone in the house decides to set up office there, they have a client come by. They don't have to go into the main house, just in and out the front door, take care of business and then from there a few more steps go into the main house.

 

So that opens up and a very large open space. There's the fireplace, dining, living, kitchen are all in that area. And then behind the kitchen is sort of the pool deck area for showers and changing and so on. And then there's a large circular stair that's the pin. So if you think about the semipublic and the private, they splay out at 120 degrees.

 

And the stairway is the pin that holds us together to do that rotation. So there's a very large grand sculptural stair up to the second level, and it comes up between the master bedroom and the additional bedrooms, so that when you move towards the cul de sac, you're now in the master bedroom suite that is like this big diving board looking over.

 

It's a tremendous site, as I said, was very challenging. But being in that master bedroom and looking out over the trees away from the site, it's a dramatic view going the other direction there. The other bedrooms that I said eventually gets back to grade because it gets so steep in the back and then there's also the stair continues down.

 

So there's a family room in the basement, a large television there as well. And then on the other end we have that same rotation with the garage, and that's a much more modest stair coming from the garage into that living space. But it's based on those three axes and those two hinges to turn it on to the site, both in plan and in section.

 

00;06;57;16 - 00;07;19;03

DP

These zones are further emphasized through the vertical layering of the building, rising with his site's natural topography. In contrast, Sussan Lari's Henhawk House expanded a 40 100 square foot Tudor home into a 13,300 square foot estate. While maintaining the scale and charm of the original architecture.

 

00;07;19;05 - 00;07;38;15

SL

Location is really a fantastic location. The tree lined boulevard type street in Long Island. The house itself was Tudor style brick. Relatively small zoning wise, were allowed to build close to 8000ft², and the existing house was close to 4400ft².

 

00;07;38;16 - 00;07;40;04

DP

So there's an FAR there.

 

00;07;40;07 - 00;08;08;02

SL

Yes, yes. Everything we do is full force zoning under rules. And that's kind of what I've learned them really well. As much as can be played with. We have learned at all. But the house had character by the house was dim like, typically Tudor style houses from outside are just stunningly gorgeous piece of structure. And when you go in it's just sad, dark.

 

00;08;08;05 - 00;08;13;18

DP

I love the way you describe that. It's so true. So many tutors really feel that way. Absolutely.

 

00;08;13;20 - 00;08;49;05

SL

You know, in a way it gives this kind of fear of people to the Tudor because they think Tudor supposed to be dark interior and that is not going to happen with my approach to design, because I like the style of Tudor, and I don't like the style of sad inside spaces. So it's bright and happy and is open, is spacious, you know, lots of windows.

 

And in this particular case, the expansion of the house was extensive because I needed to keep a chimney.

 

00;08;49;11 - 00;08;51;21

DP

Was this a functional chimney or boiler flues?

 

00;08;51;21 - 00;09;10;09

SL

Yes. Function to me. And then we wanted to keep a fireplace. We wanted to keep a chimney and they wanted to keep the ceiling has to work ceiling of a dining room. So I said, okay, we keep all those tree, but we get rid of everything.

 

00;09;10;12 - 00;09;25;03

DP

Her design emphasized the playfulness of the Tudor esthetic, with its steeply pitched roofs, half timbered facades and intricate brickwork, all modernized with a bright and open interior that reflects contemporary living.

 

00;09;25;06 - 00;10;01;28

SL

The idea become into doing an L-shape design and because it was kind of long L-shaped, it gives me the opportunity to create the design, as there are certain components of structures together, section by section, with the playfulness of the roof, which is important for Tudor style and also different height, and also introduction of stucco and introduction of wood paneling, framing stuccos and brick, and also playfulness of a brick.

 

00;10;02;01 - 00;10;22;28

DP

Brick played a pivotal role in both projects, not only for its durability and timelessness, but also as a design tool to express texture and detail. At Guildford Court, dark brick veneer was used for the semipublic zone, creating a visual contrast and grounding the structure within its suburban context.

 

00;10;23;00 - 00;10;53;28

PV

There's fiber cement boards for the bedroom space, and then the semipublic was, a brick, and then the garage was, I think there's a wood on there. So we have a couple different faces. There's a brick facade for the semipublic. I think there's some brick as well on the garage, and we also brought some of the brick inside in the living spaces.

 

We wanted to have a variety of materials to represent because everything's now being divided into threes with the garage, semipublic, private spaces.

 

00;10;54;01 - 00;11;00;14

DP

So tell me a little bit about why you guys chose to use brick, in particular, the dark brick.

 

00;11;00;16 - 00;11;16;21

PV

The dark brick. That was not my selection. I did not select the colors on that element, but it would also be contrasting. You could see the dramatic change in color because as I said, it's about these three elements. And so they read differently every way you cut it.

 

00;11;16;21 - 00;11;23;19

DP

It, you know, would seem to me that you chose to use brick as a differentiated design element, right? Right.

 

00;11;23;21 - 00;11;34;07

PV

It's also very common in this part of the country. In an old town, Virginia, and just all up and down the East Coast. Brick was the way to do durable construction and still is.

 

00;11;34;09 - 00;11;38;10

DP

Are there any houses around this one that are masonry as well?

 

00;11;38;14 - 00;11;57;13

PV

Yes. So the houses that were there in the neighboring lots, most of them were split level with a lower with brick on the first floor and siding on the second floor. The houses that have come in their place, the two I can think of are stucco, but there's a lot of brick in the neighborhood.

 

00;11;57;15 - 00;12;07;19

DP

The brick was also introduced in interior spaces such as the fireplace surround, blending the exterior and interior seamlessly.

 

00;12;07;21 - 00;12;23;02

PV

There's brick for the fireplace surround, which is the left photograph there. And there were also two trees on the site where we ended up pulling those up, but the contractor had those milled and used them for the trim. The wood that's above the fireplace there is from those trees.

 

00;12;23;09 - 00;12;24;22

DP

Do you remember the species?

 

00;12;24;24 - 00;12;27;25

PV

My recollection will be black locust, but I'm not sure.

 

00;12;27;28 - 00;12;40;15

DP

I was going to ask you what some of the historical precedents were for the, for the architecture, but clearly were into much more modern architecture here. However, as you said, we see brick in the area.

 

00;12;40;17 - 00;12;45;17

PV

Yeah. There's brick. The material is common in Northern Virginia, the building forms.

 

00;12;45;25 - 00;12;47;11

DP

Yeah. I was going to say we got gables here.

 

00;12;47;11 - 00;12;54;29

PV

Yeah, that's pretty common as well. So the basis of it is traditional, but the implementation has become modern.

 

00;12;55;02 - 00;13;06;04

DP

And tell me a little bit, what I call this modern Tudor aesthetic. Where did that come from? And I know it's not modern Tudor, but describe that for our listeners.

 

00;13;06;06 - 00;13;15;24

PV

So from this view, the division of the fiber cement is accomplished with these vertical elements that come proud of the exterior finish.

 

00;13;15;27 - 00;13;21;23

DP

Okay. So they're not set back into the fiber cement. They're brashly proud. So it's applied.

 

00;13;21;27 - 00;13;37;08

PV

Yeah. And so that could be considered a reference. It was not the intention but to have timber that was common with timber houses. Would use expressed wood materials and then with stucco in between those. And then the angles for the roofs are fairly standard.

 

00;13;37;14 - 00;13;38;03

DP

Are those 12 12? Tudor style?

 

00;13;38;03 - 00;13;45;07

PV

Yes they are. The contractor ended up putting living space up there as well. So we made good use of that space.

 

00;13;45;07 - 00;13;59;19

DP

Of course, for Henhawk House, brick became a canvas for creativity. The facade features herringbone patterns, soldier courses and diagonal layouts, adding richness and depth to the design.

 

00;13;59;21 - 00;14;12;28

SL

I think we were good in accomplishing that because it has its playfulness and although is relatively large but it is not overwhelmingly massive.

 

00;14;13;00 - 00;14;14;15

DP

I'd say it's well scaled.

 

00;14;14;17 - 00;15;07;29

SL

It is well scaled, right? And then at the end, we realized that there's no way we could match the old brick. So I know Glen-Gery very well, because if I ever have done any brickwork has been Glen-Gery and why? Because the quality of the material and I get service. So I am fussy enough to worry about the size and also worry about the color of the grout.

 

And I want to have the samples of it made before I even decide what color brick. So a rep does that service for us and do the color we provide the color and tell what brick. And between those is what I chose and eventually and I have are some Mason that are Italian and five brothers and one better than the other.

 

They're local to local and they do a magnificent job. And also they built a good size.

 

00;15;08;01 - 00;15;09;10

DP

They did a mock up?

 

00;15;09;14 - 00;15;51;18

SL

Absolutely. And and one other thing that I was almost kind of experimenting, this project was that I love the style of Tudor on the outside. I don't like that inside. So that was one issue. Second issue. I like the playfulness of how we could create interesting textures and playfulness of the laying of the brick, but Tudor would allow me to do that because we are compartmentalizing pieces here there, and that other styles don't do that.

 

And then that herringbone style has to be compartmentalize, right?

 

00;15;51;21 - 00;15;53;18

DP

In between the boards, I think at one.

 

00;15;53;18 -00;16;40;12

SL

Between the boards would work. We shouldn't do too much of it because too much of an accessory. Not good. So it allowed me to experiment and do detailed work. And also choosing of the color of the brick and the color of the stucco and the freedom I had in detailing and designing and working also with the roof and with the roofer - I’m friend with the roofer, I'm friend with the Mason man, I’m friend and and to make sure that we get eventually a beautifully detailed house and outside. And then when it come to the inside, our life is modern.

 

We are living in this time. Our space should be representing our era.

 

00;16;40;15 - 00;16;43;00

DP

Did you guys use any brick on the interior?

 

00;16;43;03 - 00;16;45;09

SL

Not on this project.

 

00;16;45;11 - 00;16;53;01

DP

What were some of the historical precedents? We were talking about details. Were there any local buildings that were Tudors? Was this the only?

 

00;16;53;01 - 00;16;59;08

SL

Yes, actually, no. No, it's not in this particular street. There are many other brick buildings.

 

00;16;59;10 - 00;17;27;18

DP

Both architects face unique challenges, but found creative solutions to overcome them. In navigating the steep and irregular site of Guildford Court, the unique three axis geometry and distinct programmatic zones brought forth a familiar concept for Peter, known as polyrhythms. The result is a home that harmonizes with its environment while offering dramatic views and a clear organization of space.

 

00;17;27;20 - 0;18;27;00

PV

Something else we hadn't discussed that I used to play the drums, still do. Yeah, and for a long time I used to play, actually in a bagpipe band. More sophisticated than you think. But, so rhythm is something that I've been dealing with since I was ten years old. And one thing that came up is what called polyrhythms, where you have overlapping rhythms, you take two rhythms that may not be so interesting on their own, but when they're overlaid with each other, then it creates something more interesting than either of them were to begin with.

 

And that's how I view this project, that this overlay, the reason why that window angle is there on the corner is because the geometry of the private portion is been thrust through the semipublic. And so there's an angle that goes through, the chimney was rotated along that as well. And the contractor turned that back. But it was that slot that pushed through that mirrors the same axis that the private portion is on.

 

00;18;27;02 - 00;18;46;17

DP

For Henhawk House, Sussan preserved key elements of the original structure, such as a chimney and a decorative dining room ceiling, while designing a new L-shaped layout. This approach allowed her to integrate traditional and modern elements, creating a home that feels both expansive and intimate.

 

00;18;46;19 - 00;18;54;15

SL

The chimney that I wanted to keep, which was right above the fireplace, was outside of skyline exposure.

 

00;18;54;17 - 00;18;57;03

DP

Okay, there was a height restriction?

 

00;18;57;06 - 00;20;44;08

SL

Yes, we always have height restriction in this case, I said, this is an existing building. This is not a new house. This is a renovation of an existing house. So I'm allowed to keep the chimney. And that chimney, we end up to really change the inside of the chimney on the outside of the chimney, and all the bricks and everything, but we kept the height.

 

Now, the zoning building going to hear that. Fortunately, we had no issue at the setback because we had plenty of space from the front of the house in King's Point to setback requirement for front yard is 60ft and we had way more than 60ft. It was deep enough that I was able to create a parking courtyard in front of the house and the garage.

 

We have one two car garage on the upper level and then three car garage on the lowest level. The garage is actually coming further out from the front of the house, but I don't think we had any other zoning issues. But one other feature of the house that I thought, it's kind of important. As I was driving around and see all these Tudor houses, Tudor is not a box, Tudor is never a box. Tudor expand. And that is one beautiful feature of when it's all expand. We had a lot of width, plenty of available. The size of the property was very large and we had enough room on the site, and I thought that if I could add an extra width to the house, will be introducing a brick wall, extending from the garage, and that will be the access from the front of the house to the garden.

 

00;20;44;10 - 00;20;47;26

DP

And then you did a series of small windows along the garage, correct?

 

00;20;48;02 - 00;21;06;04

SL

Yes, because a simple wall without any detail in the front elevation was not a good idea. If I can introduce fenestration into the wall and breaking it, because this is again the style of Tudor.

 

00;21;06;07 - 00;21;11;12

DP

Did you guys get to do any new details on this project that you hadn't done in the past?

 

00;21;11;14 - 00;21;22;06

SL

Yes, that brick herringbone is new. The playfulness of the brick above the entrance hall in the front and back, front and back are identical in what they represent.

 

00;21;22;09 - 00;22;29;09

DP

Reflecting on the design and construction of each home, both projects skillfully balance historical charm and modern functionality, demonstrating how this iconic style can be adapted to meet contemporary needs while maintaining its traditional character. Whether through Peter's innovative use of geometric axes and dark brick to articulate spaces, or Sussan's playful incorporation of brick patterns, timber framed stucco, and steep gabled roofs, both projects celebrate the rich textures and distinctive elements that define Tudor architecture, such as intricate brickwork, bold roof lines, and striking chimneys.

 

Ultimately, these projects underscore the power of Tudor design to bridge past and present, offering timeless esthetics alongside modern livability. Through their thoughtful interpretations, Peter and Sussan highlight how this historic style continues to inspire and evolve, creating homes that are as functional as they are beautiful.

 

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

DP (Doug Pat)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;33;19

JI (Jeremy Iannucci)

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape, where they start up in the northwest corner. Move around down West Street and then below, creating a U that opens up towards the water. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;00;33;22 - 00;02;07;13

DP

In this special series, we're unlocking some of the most powerful conversations we've had so far. We're connecting the dots, revealing hidden gems, and unearthing insights that might have slipped by. All to spark your next big idea with brick. Whether you're looking for fresh inspiration or innovative solutions, this series is designed to fuel your creativity. So let's dive in.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault.

 

Today we explore mixed use developments, a type of urban design that integrates multiple uses such as residential, commercial, cultural, institutional, and entertainment into one cohesive space. Mixed use projects aim to create vibrant, interconnected communities by physically and functionally blending these diverse components, often prioritizing pedestrian friendly environments. This bonus episode highlights three remarkable mixed use projects from past episodes, emphasizing insights from architects Jeremy Iannucci, John Zimmer, and Vincente Quiroga.

 

We'll explore the architectural design process, construction challenges and the thoughtful use of materials, particularly brickwork, to bring these complex developments to life.

 

Jeremy Iannucci discussed One Java, a residential project in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. This ambitious development balances sustainability, affordability and marketability with cutting edge features.

 

00;02;07;19 - 00;02;36;27

JI

The site's 200ft in the North south and then between West Street and the East River around 600ft, with 40ft reserved for a waterfront esplanade. We actually pulled back even a little bit further from that, and it's located right on the waterfront in Greenpoint. There was recently a rezoning that allowed for a whole redesign of the waterfront, and our project is one of the earlier projects in that redevelopment.

 

00;02;36;29 - 00;02;42;19

DP

So could you give us an idea of what the scope of the project is and the programmatic requirements?

 

00;02;42;26 - 00;03;03;06

JI

So it's a residential project of around 834 units, encompassing a total of around 800,000ft². This also comes with a series of amenity spaces, a series of retail spaces, as well as that waterfront park and also a collection of rooftop amenities in greenspace.

 

00;03;03;08 - 00;03;10;03

DP

So let's talk about the building design. Stylistically, were you guys borrowing from anything locally?

 

00;03;10;05 - 00;03;35;06

JI

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood historically, and Greenpoint specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material bricks with the two precast towers.

 

00;03;35;08 - 00;03;40;11

DP

So what was on the site before you guys ended up building the new architecture?

 

00;03;40;13 - 00;04;04;25

JI

Previously, there was a two story warehouse on the site, and it really was kind of a beautiful space in its own right before. We got the chance to tour around, before it was demolished. And I think walking around really inspired us just with these qualities of light and materials and things that were really native to the waterfront before all of this redevelopment.

 

00;04;04;28 - 00;04;14;08

DP

And the project, as I said, very large. Could you tell me a little bit about the zoning requirements and any challenges you guys had in terms of planning?

 

00;04;14;10 - 00;05;11;19

JI

So the project is as of right. It follows the zoning guidelines. The lot itself is actually split up into two different zones. So towards the inland it's mostly low rise. We had a height cap of 65ft with portions that were allowable to go up to 100. And then towards the waterfront. The zoning actually got a little more complicated where there were a few different conditions that you could meet.

 

It opened up these different paths for how the building could be formed. One path was a one tower scheme, which would bring you up to 360ft. And then the other was actually a two tower scheme where if one tower made it to 200ft, the other would be allowed up to 400ft. We took advantage of that in order to move more of the mass to the waterfront.

 

It helped gradually declined building back into the fabric of the community, and it provided more waterfront views.

 

00;05;11;21 - 00;05;19;14

DP

John Zimmer shared insights on The Lively, an 18 story tower in Jersey City's Powerhouse Arts District.

 

00;05;19;17 - 00;06;12;23

JZ (John Zimmer)

The Powerhouse Arts District in Jersey City is so named because there is a somewhat iconic powerhouse there. It had been an industrial area that was targeted for redevelopment, and they had design standards for the entire district that were meant to maintain that character. Not necessarily industrial, but loft style, focus on the arts. The entire district has a strong focus on the arts, which is part of the reason we have the black box theater in The Lively.

 

It's experienced a lot of new development over the course of the last decade, and it's pretty great today. When I first started going over to the powerhouse ten years ago, I'd get out of meetings and the sidewalks would be deserted, and today it feels like Brooklyn. It feels like the East Village. I mean, it is incredibly, for want of a better word, lively.

 

So it's a great neighborhood now, and it's all happened in the last decade. It's an exciting thing to have been a part of, honestly.

 

00;06;12;26 - 00;06;20;01

DP

This mixed use development includes retail spaces, a black box theater, and residential units.

 

00;06;20;03 - 00;07;17;00

JZ

180 residential units. Lennar is one of the biggest home builders in America, but they were mostly doing suburban subdivision work. They got into the urban markets. I can't tell you exactly one, but they were still a little bit new to it. When we took this project on and they were ambitious, they wanted to be at the absolute top of the market for a residential building in Jersey city.

 

And obviously, as any developer does, they wanted to maximize rentable square footage and get the most bang for their buck. And they had this requirement for the black box theater. You know, the project came with this with its approval, but it got a zoning bonus for having the theater in the base of extra height. It was a give back to the community that was written into the zoning, and we always knew it was going to be a theater, and we always knew it was going to be for a nonprofit arts group.

 

And that arts program as part of the building was in the DNA of the project from the very beginning, and informed a lot of the decisions moving forward became part of the personality of the building throughout, not just the theater itself, really.

 

00;07;17;03 - 00;07;23;18

DP

Vincente Quiroga discussed 29 Huron, a two tower development in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

 

00;07;23;20 - 00;08;40;15

VQ (Vincente Quiroga)

The history of the site, you know, it's a long, narrow site. Our building massing is 100ft in the north south direction. It's over 500ft in the east west direction. So it's very distended and lengthened and narrowed. The original site was a one story warehouse, which was kind of the context of the neighborhood. I lived in that neighborhood many years ago, and that was the context.

 

The context is changing primarily because in a sort of Bloomberg era, there was up zoning plan, but then the 2008 crisis stalled those plans, and it took a while for that increase, zoning and development to come to fruition. And so we were part of that increased zoning for the site. In terms of the massing, we wanted to take a sense of the character that was there and honor that.

 

Not all the projects that we see built. Really take that into account. And we were thinking, what is the context now and what was the context in the past? So we really thought about selecting a one story podium and selecting brick as the foundation for that, and also being practical about the openings and where they are located. The emphasis for the target population would be families.

 

So large units, lots of two bedroom and three bedroom units, a lot of outdoor access and the views because of its waterfront proximity.

 

00;08;40;18 - 00;09;05;15

DP

Yeah, the site is unbelievable and you guys really take advantage of just about everything out there. It's a great project. So let's talk about the design. So first let's talk about the building stylistically. So to me it looks a lot like a very contemporary warehouse space right. So there's lots of glass. It almost appears lantern like in the photos that I saw at dusk.

It's beautiful.

 

00;09;05;18 -  00;09;34;00

VQ

The choice of the materials was very specific. The neighborhood has a unique grid orientation to the world, and so it captures the light in the sunrise and sunset, in particular the brick. We chose to be a rough molded brick with a dark mortar, and the metal panel has a mica flake to it that captures the light and changes throughout the day.

 

So some times it looks orange and coppery. Sometimes it actually looks bronze toned and it has a chocolate Sienna under glass to it.

 

00;09;34;07 - 00;09;42;01

DP

Each project faced unique challenges. 29 Huron is situated in a flood zone requiring innovative solutions.

 

00;09;42;04 - 00;10;20;28

VQ

The first story is about 17ft in height, and so there's some very high ceiling experiences there, ranging from 12 to 14ft ceilings within the amenities alone. And that also gave us the room to deal with some of the flood constraints as well. Being that the site is adjacent to the East River, the predicted flood zones right now are anywhere from 5 to 6ft above grade.

 

So that was a challenge and a constraint early on where we had to coordinate. We certainly decided we weren't going to excavate because of the high water table. So some of the functions that you would put in the cellar, we put a grade, but we often had to elevate the critical services six feet above where you normally would place them.

 

00;10;21;01 - 00;10;27;26

DP

So I'm curious, when you're digging that close to the water, do you get a lot of water, a lot of groundwater coming in when you're creating your foundation?

 

00;10;27;27 - 00;10;56;08

VQ

Yes. You do. Yes. Early on there was a lot of pile driving very deep anywhere from, I would say 30 or 40ft down. And those piles were linked up with large caps, pile caps, and then mat foundations at the towers. The slab itself, because of, you know, you have to think more like a boat or a bathtub. The slab itself was anywhere from 24in to 18in thick at various points throughout it, and it has to resist uplift.

 

00;10;56;11 - 00;11;01;27

DP

Well, that's really interesting. So when you're driving piles and there's a lot of bedrock, how do you do that?

 

00;11;01;29 - 00;11;21;04

VQ

The nature of the historic waterfront is often landfilled. So a lot of it is just trash or sediment. Over 200 years, people just dump things in the river. And it created a new shoreline, which was often the case, as you see in lower Manhattan as well. So we knew that we were going to have to go deep to hit rock.

 

00;11;21;10 - 00;11;25;28

DP

So you're driving the piles then 25 or 30ft in?

 

00;11;25;29 - 00;12;21;29

VQ

Yeah. And another challenge relating to the waterfront edges we had to deal with actually coordinate with the marine architect because the edge condition was failing and we needed to remediate it. So we coordinated a new driving a new sheet edge along the shore to create that. The site actually is interesting in that it has a natural cove condition that other areas along the waterfront don't.

 

And so we recreated that in the remediation. But we also worked with the landscape architect to create this, We're obligated by zoning to create a setback for public access on the site. So they really leaned into that curved cove condition that's set back and stepped it down to the water gradually from grade, and incorporated eco concrete blocks that have various pockets that allow kind of tidepool action to happen.

 

And so we thought about breaking down the shoreline a little bit and not just a hard edge.

 

00;12;22;02 - 00;12;31;12

DP

It sounds really interesting. I mean, when somebody owns a piece of property like that and it's really sitting on debris, in many cases, it's kind of unusual.

 

00;12;31;14 - 00;13;07;28

VQ

I mean, we tried to find opportunities to maximize the value of the site with the two towers strategy. We put lots of valuable floor area up high and took advantage of the views. We made double the amount of corner units that you could have by having a two towers. We also separated them over 100ft apart, so that the west tower really gets out there in front of other buildings that are it's alongside the east tower is a setback for the east to kind of get around other buildings that could obscure it.

 

And we were actually surprised at how good the views are as it was being built. We knew it was going to be good, but it actually turned out to be better than we anticipated.

 

00;13;08;00 - 00;13;14;27

DP

It's really beautiful about the design as the corners are opened up, then to become porches, right? Terraces. Is that correct?

 

00;13;15;00 - 00;13;34;04

VQ

That's right. So as part of that is a response to some zoning constraints. At a certain height, you also had to setback in multiple directions. And one of the things that we like to do is incorporate our balconies into the building facade and not just look like appendages. So we really took advantage of that setback rule and created these covered, protected balconies.

 

00;13;34;07 - 00;13;44;23

DP

The Lively was also situated in a flood zone, requiring solutions such as deployable barriers, elevated critical systems and flood resistant glazing.

 

00;13;44;25 - 00;14;09;02

JZ

The unique topographic feature would be that it's below the 100 year flood elevation. That's always a big deal. And the sidewalks there, I think are about five feet above sea level. So flood protection resiliency, ground floor uses. How do you enter the building? How do you avoid nuisance flooding when it's not a 100 year storm? Those were all big aspects of the design of the ground floor or the pedestrian experience.

 

00;14;09;05 - 00;14;10;16

DP

So breakaway walls?

 

00;14;10;23 - 00;14;40;01

JZ

There are deployable flood barrier systems designed in. So the flood elevation is seven feet above the sidewalk. In the event of a massive tech, a hurricane Sandy kind of thing, they would deploy these flood barrier systems. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but they keep them in storage and they come out and they both enter the building, or they spread them around the building.

 

They can be self-supporting, and they have to be deployed in a certain amount of time because it's an emergency response system. So a big part of all the projects in this area.

 

00;14;40;06 - 00;14;44;17

DP

And what about zoning codes? You had mentioned you had a height issue.

 

00;14;44;19 - 00;15;27;12

JZ

Yeah. So the building got, I think, 65 additional feet for having the black box theater in it. That was one zoning aspect. You can see the cantilever here over the sidewalk. There was a sidewalk widening requirement in the zoning. So that made it obviously challenging. You've got 17 stories of residences coming down over a cantilever that allows the sidewalk to be wider at the base.

 

That was an interesting challenge. There's a little bit of parking in the building that came from the zoning. So obviously some structural challenges there as well. Whenever you're putting that many residences over the top of a parking garage. The second floor here that you see through the window, that is also designated art space in the zoning also requirement.

 

00;15;27;14 - 00;15;32;26

DP

So I don't do tall buildings. How many extra floors to 65ft get you?

 

00;15;32;29 - 00;15;59;27

JZ

I think it was basically five because the top floor is an amenity space, rooftop amenity, which was specifically permitted by the zoning bonus. I think it really made the building, the massing and the expression of these mid-range buildings is a little bit tricky. They're not as tall as they want to be to be a tall building, and they're not as low rise as they want to be to be a low rise building.

 

And I think the extra stories really help to give it a little bit more verticality. It's a better piece of architecture for it.

 

00;16;00;02 - 00;16;03;22

DP

So tell us about the building plan. You said there's a sharp corner.

 

00;16;03;24 - 00;16;47;10

JZ

Yeah, very acute corner. There's two lot lines and it has a corner lot. So right where you have your corner window with two exposures, there's a very acute corner and I can't remember the actual degrees. But anytime you have a building it's not just the corner that's a problem. In fact the corner isn't really a problem. You may not be able to put a sofa in that corner, but the corner per se is not a problem.

 

It's kind of a cool room to be inside of, but what it means is that the apartments on each of those two different streets are on different geometries. And so if you're going to have a rectilinear apartment on streets that are at such different geometries that all crashes into each other at the corner and at the corridors and at the courtyards, so it becomes very challenging to plan buildings that feel sensible and projects that have this kind of site.

 

00;16;47;12 - 00;16;59;02

DP

The narrow, irregular site of The Lively, demanded creative massing strategies to optimize space while meeting zoning requirements and maintaining contextual sensitivity.

 

00;16;59;05 - 00;18;01;13

JZ

From its get go. There was never any question it was going to be a contemporary building. As far as where we drew our inspiration from and what we were looking at, you know, I mentioned the difficulty, the massing for these midnight buildings. I think the gathering together, the window openings into these vertical slots helps to emphasize the verticality of the building.

 

We have this prominent gold portal for the black box theater and the building entrance, and that became an idea that we repeated throughout the facade frame, these moments on the facade. And I think generally we try to be pretty rigorous about how the facades are designed. Obviously you've got structural continuity, but then you've got what always happens in residential design is you've got living rooms that are one width and you've got bedrooms that are a different width.

 

And so a strictly rational grid is probably not going to serve you well for a residential building the way it does for a commercial building. So you're often trying to find a way to manage that. If your interest is fundamentally and having a kind of rigorous and rational facade, you're trying to find a way to manage those partitions hitting the wall.

 

00;18;01;13 - 00;18;19;27

JZ

And what does that mean? And at the same time, I think creating a facade with movement and interest and dynamism and that play on the facade, I think was always an important part. And you could say it is part of the emphasis on the arts and the theater and dance, but also obviously just an interest in creating something fresh.

 

00;18;19;29 - 00;18;28;25

DP

At One Java for the project prioritized views and thoughtful use of materials which elevated the design and ensured long term durability.

 

00;18;28;28 - 00;18;56;15

JI

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block, and on three sides on the north, the east and the south, we have streets. And then the west side is the waterfront. It's the East River. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape where they start up in the northwest corner, move around down West Street and then below, creating a view that opens up towards the water.

 

00;18;56;18 - 00;18;59;18

DP

So it's really all about the views, which it should be.

 

00;18;59;20 - 00;19;14;19

JI

Yes, it's something that it needs to be on the waterfront as well as it is about the views back into the neighborhood. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;19;14;22 - 00;19;24;13

DP

So tell us a little bit about the material choices. We've got a series of different materials and colors there. What were the decisions behind that?

 

00;19;24;15 - 00;20;16;04

JI

The building massing itself is broken up into five unique buildings, and out of those we have two towers that are precast, and those are the buildings on the waterfront. And then inland, there are three different buildings that range from ten stories to six stories. And those three buildings are brick, and that we really wanted to draw back from a lot of our inspirations in the Greenpoint community.

 

There's no shortage of brick precedents there. There's beautiful buildings such as The Astral, which is this queen in red brick terracotta building. There's Saint Anthony's Church, which is red brick and limestone trim. It's really beautiful, striking building. We looked towards kind of the history of the waterfront, those manufacturing industrial buildings, and used that precedent to define these brick colors, these three different brick buildings.

 

00;20;16;06 - 00;20;44;28

DP

So interestingly, the facades. So we've got the shorter or we've got the less tall architecture, which are brick buildings, and the facades are a series of what I'll call punctures with spandrel. It looks like spandrel brick in between each one of these vertically in between each one of the window openings. Correct? Yes. So how many studies did you guys end up doing to decide what these facades looked like?

 

00;20;45;00 - 00;21;23;17

JI

Everything kind of melded together. At some point, it's hard to break it down into a number because it was just this completely iterative process where we'd look at something, we'd make a model, we draw it, we'd look at it again, we'd make another model, we draw it. And this evolved from the concept, schematic designs all the way through to the construction document development.

 

This idea of the different brick details that actually came from wanting to streamline the project. So we use the same details on each of the brick buildings, but we remix them in each one. We use them in a different order to create a different identity for each of these.

 

00;21;23;19 - 00;21;40;29

DP

I think what's really interesting about these facades too, so you separate them facades into squares or rectangles, and then they have this very well. It looks subtle in elevation from far away, but it's actually a very large construction joint in between each one of these square rectangular panels. Correct?

 

00;21;41;02 - 00;21;56;02

JI

Yes. We use that construction joint and we overemphasize it. We use this double soldier coursing reveal tool as a way to further break up the massing and kind of imply this subdivisions within the buildings.

 

00;21;56;05 - 00;21;59;01

DP

And how deep is that, is that one brick thickness?

 

00;21;59;04 - 00;22;00;20

JI

It's two inches.

 

00;22;00;20 - 00;22;11;11

DP

Two inches. It's nice because when you look at the facade, I mean, it looks quite homogenous. But if you look at it a little bit more deeply, it's separated into these squares and rectangles. It's very pretty.

 

00;22;11;16 - 00;22;30;20

JI

Yeah. That's the effect that we really want to go for in terms of how this fits into the fabric of Greenpoint. We like the idea of there being this large scale massing that breaks down and continues to break down the closer you get, and it relates to more of your scale relative to the way that you're viewing it.

 

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;52;26

DP

You know, as an aside, what's really pretty, the red brick that you guys use there, there are a lot of lighter bricks in that facade, and so it makes it look almost pink in color, but you get up close to it and you can see a lot of variations in these colors in the red colored brick, a lot of like I'll call it value, but it's light and dark red brick.

 

00;22;52;29 - 00;23;57;04

JI

For that facade we're using a blended brick, and we wanted that to echo some of the red brick buildings that you already see on West Street, on the waterfront. That was kind of our launching point for coming up with this brick palette. We knew that there was going to be a red brick building. We knew that it was going to be relative to those warehouses.

 

And then the other two bricks were kind of an offshoot that based on how we wanted to frame this story of the building as you move around the site. So to the north, there's a lighter brick. It's something that we see as a little more modern. We try to keep the tones of the brick and mortar and the sills and other materials a little more homogenous.

 

And then on the flip side of that, on the southern street of the building, Java Street, we wanted to use something with a bit more variation. We wanted a higher contrast between the ground and the brick, a higher variability within the bricks. And that's something that we saw as a little more nostalgic to some of those worker housings and the smaller buildings that you begin to see as you move more inland.

 

00;23;57;07 - 00;24;41;16

DP

These mixed use projects demonstrate how brick and thoughtful architectural design can serve as a bridge between the past and future. By blending functionality with design, each project contributes to its community while addressing practical and esthetic goals.

 

Jeremy, John and Vincenet emphasize the importance of collaboration, innovation, and a deep understanding of site context in achieving these outcomes. Ultimately, these developments showcase how mixed use projects can create vibrant, connected urban environments, enriching neighborhoods through thoughtful integration of diverse uses and attention to detail in design and execution.

 

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;14

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;17 - 00;00;30;22

Jeremy Iannucci (JI)

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;00;30;25 - 00;03;22;21

DP

This is my guest, Jeremy Iannucci. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault, we highlight Marvel’s Project 1 Java in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. 1 Java is a mixed use residential series of buildings located in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The project responds to the New York City housing market and owners' needs addressing sustainability, constructability, risk mitigation, tax incentives and marketability.

 

The Development Investment Strategy required a net zero ready design and maximization of floor area. The project includes the largest geothermal array in New York State. The building will participate in the 421A affordable New York and inclusionary housing program, which provides up to 261 affordable housing units out of a total of 871. The new architecture consists of two towers, of prefabricated concrete sheet panels and three lower buildings varying from 6 to 10 storeys with brick masonry facades.

 

All five buildings rise from Greenpoint in a U-shape plan to maximize light views and open space. Terraces on the east and west. Facades of the towers modulate the elevation while creating private terraces for units and amenity spaces. Retail, food and beverage and live workspaces are consolidated along West and India streets. Townhomes share setback stoops, and a small secondary convenience lobby for the low rise along Java Street.

 

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Jeremy Iannucci is a registered architect at Marvel in New York City. He has a Bachelor of Architecture from City College's Spitzer School of Architecture. His portfolio encompasses a number of challenging endeavors at Marvel, including a mixed use project located in Brooklyn's Waterfront, which we will discuss today. Jeremy enjoys taking part in international design competitions, one of which was recently shortlisted in a competition to design a children's hospice center, and another was awarded an honorary mention in which he designed a house relying exclusively on daylighting for organizing spaces and form making.

 

Jeremy also serves as a design critic at the City College of New York and Pratt Institute. So welcome, Jeremy. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about Marvel in New York City. So where in the city are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long has it been around and what type of work do you guys do?

 

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;52;02

JI

Thank you so much for having me on. We are a New York firm. We also have offices in Puerto Rico, Richmond, Virginia, more recently, Barcelona. We're currently located in New York, in Tribeca, and around 200 people at this point. As far as projects that we take on, we like to say design everywhere for everyone. We don't try to limit ourselves to typology.

 

We take whatever comes at us. We measure everything against the values of the firm and we really just enjoy design.

 

00;03;52;05 - 00;03;58;21

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been working as an architect and what's your role in the office?

 

00;03;58;23 - 00;04;08;27

JI

So in the office I really work through all stages of the project, through design, working on developing proposals, project delivery and currently in construction to administration.

 

00;04;08;29 - 00;04;13;06

DP

So this is a really beautiful project and it's extraordinarily large.

 

00;04;13;12 - 00;04;14;13

JI

Yes, it is.

 

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;17;06

DP

So how did your office get the project?

 

00;04;17;08 - 00;04;33;02

JI

So we were invited to participate in the RFP back in fall of 2020. So there was a few other notable firms in the competition. We were lucky enough to be awarded the project, and we've been working hand in hand with Lendlease in bringing it to fruition ever since.

 

00;04;33;05 - 00;04;37;27

DP

Did you know the clients before you entered the competition?

 

00;04;37;29 - 00;04;47;23

JI

We had some previous relations with the clients as a contractor, but they've recently started opening a development wing in the United States. This is our first project, working with them in that capacity.

 

00;04;47;27 - 00;04;53;19

DP

So this site is really large. Could you give us a little history of the location?

 

00;04;53;21 - 00;05;23;07

JI

The site is 200 feet in the north south and then between West Street and the East River. Around 600 feet with 40 feet reserved for a waterfront esplanade. We actually pulled back even a little bit further from that. And it's located right on the waterfront in Greenpoint. There was recently a rezoning that allowed for a whole redesign of the waterfront, and our project is one of the earlier projects in that redevelopment.

 

00;05;23;09 - 00;05;29;05

DP

So could you give us an idea of what the scope of the project is and the programmatic requirements?

 

00;05;29;07 - 00;05;49;14

JI

So it's a residential project, around 834 units, encompassing a total of around 800,000 square feet. This also comes with a series of amenity spaces, a series of retail spaces, as well as that waterfront park, and also a collection of rooftop amenities and green space.

 

00;05;49;17 - 00;05;56;11

DP

So let's talk about the building design stylistically. Were you guys borrowing from anything locally?

 

00;05;56;14 - 00;06;21;16

JI

We like to think that the entire project comes from the community around it. We looked at a series of precedents in the Greenpoint neighborhood, historically in Greenpoint, specifically on the waterfront, to inspire the way that we detail these facades. We have a collection of different brick styles that help to break up the massing of the building, different articulations, as well as material breaks with the two precast towers.

 

00;06;21;18 - 00;06;26;20

DP

So what was on the site before you guys ended up building the new architecture?

 

00;06;26;23 - 00;06;51;02

JI

Previously, there was a two story warehouse on the site and it really was kind of a beautiful space in its own right before we got the chance to tour around, before it was demolished. And I think walking around really inspired us just with these qualities of light and materials and things that were really native to the waterfront before all of this redevelopment.

 

00;06;51;05 - 00;07;00;18

DP

And the project, as I said, very large. Could you tell me a little bit about the zoning requirements and any challenges you guys had in terms of planning?

 

00;07;00;21 - 00;08;03;15

JI

So the project is as of right, it follows the zoning guidelines, the lot itself is actually split up into two different zones. So towards the inland it's mostly low rise. We had a height cap of 65 feet with portions that were allowable to go up to 100. And then towards the waterfront, the zoning actually got a little more complicated where there were a few different conditions that you could meet.

 

It opened up these different paths for how the building could be formed. One path was a one tower scheme, which would bring you up to 360 feet. And then the other was actually a two tower scheme where if one tower made it to 200 feet, the other would be allowed up to 400 feet. We took advantage of that in order to move more of the mass to the waterfront.

 

It helped gradually declined the building back into the fabric of the community and it provided more waterfront views overall, just a better experience and connection of the building, both to the water and to the community.

 

00;08;03;17 - 00;08;06;02

DP

So were there any floodplain restrictions?

 

00;08;06;05 - 00;08;49;21

JI

Yes. The floodplain has actually set one foot above the highest point of the site, which is the most inland. And then the site gradually slopes down another 6 to 7 feet towards the water. So much of the initial design strategy of the project was finding ways to transition from the ground to above that floodplain elevation. And we accomplished this a number of ways.

 

We actually set the building back the distance from the lot line as we get closer to the water, and this allows us to use landscaping as a way to gradually transition back up to that flood elevation, as well as moving all of our program spaces above and then moving more utilitarian spaces such as bike rooms down below the flood elevation.

 

00;08;49;24 - 00;09;12;26

DP

So I'm thinking about our listeners, how to describe the site because we have a series of buildings here. Is there a simple way for you to explain the building plans on the site? So first we describe the shape of the site and plan, and then if you could give us an idea about how those buildings are organized on the site.

 

00;09;12;29 - 00;09;40;18

JI

So the site's essentially just a rectangle. It's the size of a full city block and on three sides, on the north, the east and the south, we have streets and then the west side is the waterfront. It's the East River. So the way that we've organized the buildings around the site is in this U-shape, where they start up in the northwest corner, move around down West Street and then below, creating a view that opens up towards the water.

 

00;09;40;20 - 00;09;43;19

DP

So it's really all about the views, which it should be.

 

00;09;43;21 - 00;09;58;19

JI

Yes, it's something that it needs to be on the waterfront as well as it is about the views back into the neighborhood. We try to open up the view corridors from the building and leave as much view towards the water and towards the horizon from the rest of Greenpoint as we can.

 

00;09;58;22 - 00;10;08;12

DP

So tell us a little bit about the material choices. You've got a series of different materials and colors there. What were the decisions behind that?

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;11;00;05

JI

The building massing itself is broken up into five unique buildings and out of those we have two towers that are precast, and those are the buildings on the waterfront and then inland. There are three different buildings that range from ten stories to six stories. And those three buildings are brick. And that we really wanted to draw back from a lot of our inspirations in the Greenpoint community.

 

There's no shortage of brick precedents there. There's beautiful buildings such as the Astral, which is this Queen Ann red brick Terracotta building. There's St Anthony's Church, which is red brick and limestone trim. It's really beautiful, striking building. We looked towards kind of the history of the waterfront, those manufacturing, industrial buildings, and used that precedent to define these brick colors, these three different brick buildings.

 

00;11;00;08 - 00;11;28;28

DP

So interestingly, the facades. So we've got the shorter, or we've got the less tall architecture, which are brick buildings, and the facades are a series of what I'll call punctures with spandrel, it looks like spandrel brick in between each one of these vertically in between each one of the window openings, correct? Yes. So how many studies did you guys end up doing to decide what these facades looked like?

 

00;11;29;00 - 00;12;07;13

JI

Everything kind of melded together at some point. It's hard to break it down into a number because it was just this completely iterative process where we'd look at something, we'd make a model, we draw it, we'd look at it again, we'd make another model, we draw it. And this evolved from the concept schematic designs all the way through to the construction document development.

 

This idea of the different brick details that actually came from wanting to streamline the project. So we used the same details on each of the brick buildings, but we remixed them in each one. We use them in a different order to create a different identity for each of these.

 

00;12;07;20 - 00;12;25;01

DP

I think what's really interesting about these facades too, so you separate the facade these into squares or rectangles, and then they have this very, well, it looks subtle in elevation from far away, but it's actually a very large construction joint in between each one of these square rectangular panels, correct?

 

00;12;25;03 - 00;12;40;03

JI

Yes. We use that construction joint and we overemphasize it. We use this double soldier coursing reveal as a way to further break up the massing and kind of imply this subdivisions within the buildings.

 

00;12;40;06 - 00;12;43;17

DP

And how deep is that? Is that one brick thickness?

 

00;12;43;22 - 00;12;44;20

JI

It's two inches.

 

00;12;44;20 - 00;12;55;11

DP

Two inches. It's nice because when you look at the facade, I mean, it looks quite homogenous. But if you look at it a little bit more deeply, it's separated in these squares and rectangles. Very pretty.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;14;27

JI

Yeah, that's the effect that we really want to go for in terms of how this fits into the fabric of Greenpoint. We like the idea of there being this large scale massing that breaks down and continues to break down the closer you get and it relates to more your scale relative to the way that you're viewing it.

 

00;13;15;00 - 00;13;22;07

DP

It really does scale the architecture nicely. So how about the building review with the city? Was that time consuming?

 

00;13;22;09 - 00;13;34;17

JI

Not at all. As I said, we were as of right building. So working through the construction documents, we were also working through permitting at the same time. It was a very easy flow from one stage to the next.

 

00;13;34;19 - 00;13;37;18

DP

Now, did you guys work in 2D and in 3D?

 

00;13;37;26 - 00;13;46;28

JI

Yes. 2D, 3D, physical models, sketches. Things were being passed around the office for a year and a half related to this.

 

00;13;47;01 - 00;13;51;00

DP

Do you work in Revit or AutoCAD or ArchiCAD?

 

00;13;51;02 - 00;13;58;26

JI

We're primarily a Revit office. We use Revit for our project delivery. We also do a bit of work in AutoCAD and in Rhino.

 

00;13;59;02 - 00;14;03;24

DP

So when you did presentation with the clients, did you show them three dimensional images and models?

 

00;14;04;01 - 00;14;31;01

JI

Yes, there is a lot of modeling. We actually very early on in the project, we built this eight foot long model of the Greenpoint waterfront, and we were working through just several dozens of iterations of the massing, the two towers, a one tower option, and we were all just spread out around the table, around this model, flipping through the different massings and trying to figure out what worked best with what else we were seeing on the waterfront.

 

00;14;31;04 - 00;14;33;00

DP

I bet the client really enjoyed that.

 

00;14;33;00 - 00;14;36;26

JI

It was a blast. Every office meeting was always a mini party.

 

00;14;36;28 - 00;14;57;08

DP

Yeah, clients love models. I mean, they love 3D images. I'm sure when you showed them these three dimensional images, particularly the towers, which are really quite beautiful, the way the facades step back and move forward. And they're just, the architecture is very interesting. So I'm sure they really enjoyed it, especially when they saw the first renderings.

 

00;14;57;10 - 00;15;12;11

JI

Yeah, again, it was a lot of fun and all these models were tactile and interactive, so it gave us a chance to move some of these blocks and figure out the correct portion, the correct distance that we'd want things to overhang to shift and slide past each other.

 

00;15;12;14 - 00;15;17;06

DP

So how many people worked on the project? How many people were involved in the office on the team?

 

00;15;17;11 - 00;15;44;07

JI

It fluctuated throughout phase. I think at the height of it we had around 12 people total, and that's assembling the full construction package, Through concept the team was a bit smaller, we maybe 4 to 6 and this is also spread out between a few of the different locations of our offices. So we had a team in our San Juan, Puerto Rico office and a team at our New York office, both working hand in hand on this.

 

00;15;44;09 - 00;16;06;15

DP

You know, as an aside, what's really pretty, the red brick that you guys use there, there are a lot of lighter bricks in that facade. And so it makes it look almost pink in color. But you get up close to it and you can see a lot of variations in these colors, in the red colored brick, a lot of like I'll call it value, but it's light and dark red brick.

 

00;16;06;18 - 00;17;10;16

JI

For that facade we're using a blended brick and we wanted that to echo some of the red brick buildings that you already see on West Street on the waterfront. That was kind of our launching point for coming up with this brick palette. We knew that there was going to be a red brick building. We knew that it was going to be relative to those warehouses and then the other two bricks were kind of an offshoot, based on how we wanted to frame this story of the building as you move around the site.

 

So to the north, there's a lighter brick. It's something that we see as a little more modern. We try to keep the tones of the brick and mortar and the sills and other materials a little more homogenous and then on the flip side of that, on the southern street of the building Java Street, we wanted to use something with a bit more variation.

 

We wanted a higher contrast between the grout and the brick, a higher variability within the bricks. And that's something that we saw as a little more nostalgic to some of those worker housings and the smaller buildings that you begin to see as you move more inland.

 

00;17;10;18 - 00;17;16;27

DP

Now the colors work very nicely together. So where are you guys in the construction phase on this? Forgive me for not knowing.

 

00;17;16;29 - 00;17;33;05

JI

Where currently pouring the concrete structure. We're up to the sixth floor now, I believe. We have gotten all of the brick pallets finalized. We've gotten all the precast facades cast. It's really kind of a game of assembly at this point.

 

00;17;33;07 - 00;17;41;28

DP

So, Jeremy, you're a young architect. I'm sure you're learning a lot. As you go along here, anything memorable so far?

 

00;17;42;01 - 00;18;01;06

JI

It's so hard to pick one thing. This entire project has just been an incredible learning experience. Admittedly, early in my career, there's so many different conditions, so much to consider with a project of this size that I really feel like I got a good breadth of exposure to so many facets of the industry now.

 

00;18;01;06 - 00;18;03;18

DP

Do you get to be out in the field a lot?

 

00;18;03;21 - 00;18;27;22

JI

Yes. Every week we have our owner and constructor meetings. We have bank walks on the side and really get to see the progress and it's moving so quickly, month by month. And also I live not too far from the site, so every week I try to make it out there and just see what's going on, see what's changed, and it's kind of humbling just seeing something come to life.

 

00;18;27;25 - 00;18;46;27

DP

I would imagine something this large, I've never worked on a project that's larger than a residential home. I mean, I've worked on schools early on, but working on a job that's this big has got to be humbling and profound and extraordinarily interesting all at the same time.

 

00;18;46;29 - 00;19;07;27

JI

Yeah, it's been challenging, but I think throughout all of it I've been extremely lucky just having in the support of a firm like Marvel as well as just an incredibly talented team of consultants, of engineers and clients who have really just been supportive and on board and actively participating in every step of the design.

 

00;19;08;00 - 00;19;12;29

DP

So I'd like to ask most of our guests, did you guys have any challenges finding a mason?

 

00;19;13;02 - 00;19;27;21

JI

No, actually, the mason that we've gone with bundling, we've worked on a few of our projects with them before, and the second that they came on board with the project, our confidence kind of skyrocketed. Just because we've had such a good experience with them previously.

 

00;19;27;23 - 00;19;37;24

DP

For all those young architects out there looking for work at a firm that they admire, how might you recommend young people find the right job?

 

00;19;37;26 - 00;20;22;06

JI

Well, the right job is kind of a hard thing to qualify. I think the best advice I could give on that is to just put your name out there wherever you can. Don't be shy in asking people for connections and asking people to kind of put you in a position that you think would be beneficial to you. With Marvel, actually, I had a friend from school who knew someone, and through them I was able to get my resume and I actually don't think Marvel was actively hiring. But I got the interview and it went very well. I loved everyone on the team and they loved me and I think I really landed in my right place. But I encourage everyone to really put yourself out to as many places as you can so you can see what fits for you and what works for you.

 

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;41;12

DP

I always kind of wonder is an older guy working in this field now to social media have a benefit in terms of finding work today? That is, is it easier to reach out to people that you simply don't know with your resume and thoughts about, hey, I'd love to work with your firm?

 

00;20;41;15 - 00;21;14;24

JI

Yeah, I think it plays a big part. It's playing an increasing part to Instagram as a way that I see a lot of firms work, a lot of firms putting out calls for applications for either positions or internships. It really increases the amount of exposure and it puts everything in one place where people might just passively see it.

 

And then there's also LinkedIn, where I get so many people messaging me about my experience at Marvel and kind of things that they're looking for, things that they would want to know about if they were to apply for a position or an internship.

 

00;21;14;27 - 00;22;17;12

DP

It's interesting, just as an aside, I never really thought about this, but when you said it puts things in one place, the web really does help them. It sounds really dumb, but to a guy like me who's 55 years old when I was young, you either have to see an architect work in a magazine, you visit their office and you get to see all the photos of all of their work.

 

But the web really does an amazing job of putting absolutely everything in one location, right? So you go, especially an app like Instagram, where you simply open it up, go to a page and you can see all 400 projects or 30 projects or whatever it is, and contact people at the firm in 2 minutes. It really has changed the paradigm for employment or simply for marketing and all these other things.

 

I know it all sounds very obvious, but as I sit here with a young architect, it makes me think that your world is simply very different than what mine used to be.

 

00;22;17;19 - 00;22;30;19

JI

I also think it's democratized in a way. It's given smaller firms a greater opportunity and platform to put their work out that it could be on the same level with the kind of content that you see from much larger firms.

 

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;40;06

DP

I love that. That makes a lot of sense. So, Jeremy, it's been great to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people go to learn more about Marvel and yourself?

 

00;22;40;06 - 00;22;50;03

JI

Yeah, thank you, Doug. You can visit our website, MarvelDesign.com or also please follow us on Instagram at @Marvel_is_design.

 

00;22;50;05 - 00;22;55;28

DP

All right well, Jeremy, thank you very much again for being here. It's been great to have you as a guest.

 

00;22;55;29 - 00;22;59;28

JI

Yeah. Thank you so much, Doug.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;10

Doug Pat (DP)

Let's go inside the vault. The design vault.

 

00;00;05;12 - 00;00;34;05

Michelle Todd (MT)

So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade. It was a beautiful building of brick in the front and the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. We wind up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just a renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild.

 

00;00;34;07 - 00;01;01;23

DP

This is my guest, Michelle Todd. I'll share more about her shortly. In this episode from The Design Vault. We highlight Michelle's restoration project at 102 Bainbridge Street in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. The Bainbridge Street renovation project is located in the Stuyvesant Heights Historic District. It was built within a row of buildings, which is a long group of houses planned to form seven freestanding architectural units.

 

00;01;01;28 - 00;03;46;13

DP

102 is situated at the end of the row. It's a modified Spanish residential style home with a triple arched loggia made of red brick laid in Flemish pond. The roof parapet rises at the center in an arch supported on concave shoulders. The restoration was begun to repair a buckling roof parapet, deteriorated walls, damaged pediment and cracking stucco facade.

 

Renovation work was extensive and a decision was made early not to replace the stucco, but rather leave and repair the natural brick masonry. The building scope also changed during construction from an exterior renovation to demolition and reconstruction due to construction material issues. Structural engineers were also consulted to create a necessary and unique wall construction method. The existing roof skylights, roof hatch and areas of limestone and bluestone were also repaired.

 

The project was also recently awarded the 2023 Lucy G. Moses New York Landmark Conservancy Award. Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Michelle Todd is an architect and principal of M.Todd Architects in Bedford-Stuyvesant, New York. Michelle has a master of science from Columbia University in architecture and urban design. She also studied at the École des Beaux-Arts in France.

 

Michelle grew up in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood in the 1970s. She knew she wanted to be an architect by the age of ten. Her interests today focus on urban planning and socially responsive architecture. After a brief stint at Perkins Eastman, she opened her own firm in 2008. Since then, she's worked for small and large corporations such as Snapple, the New York City Agency Office of Emergency Management, as well as private residential projects.

 

Her studio in Brooklyn, New York, focuses on historic renovations and additions, collaborating directly with clients and working closely with the general contractor during construction. Michelle's worked on Landmark designated buildings, bakeries, restaurants, schools and renovation projects. She's an adjunct professor at the New York City CUNY College and a licensed architect in New York State and Maryland. She's certified as a consultant with the International Institute of Building Enclosures, and Living Future accredited with the International Living Future Institute.

 

Welcome, Michelle. It's nice to have you with us today. So tell us a little bit about M.Todd Architects in Brooklyn. So where in Bed-Stuy are you located? What's the size of the firm? How long have you been around? And tell us a little more about project types.

 

00;03;46;16 - 00;04;19;19

MT

The firm is in the heart of Bedford-Stuyvesant on the whole Z Street. Been around since 2008 was almost 15 years as of March of this year, 2024. And basically the firm is small, is about three people, we specialize specifically in historical preservation, as well as residential private editions, commercial projects such as restaurants, bake houses and also schools. So basically you have a realm of achievement in different areas, which is commercial, residential and also business.

 

00;04;19;21 - 00;04;26;09

DP

So tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you been practicing architecture and what's your role in the office as principal?

 

00;04;26;12 - 00;05;00;18

MT

I've been practicing architecture since 2008, when I received my license. However, I do have decades of experience before then in working at previous larger offices, in smaller offices to gain the experience I needed. Because, as you know, as an architect, you have to have at least three years working first in the field and then afterwards you're able to take the examination.

 

So once I did that, then just made initiative to just start my own practice. And basically I am the principal where I do a lot of marketing as well as clients in order to obtain business.

 

00;05;00;20 - 00;05;02;15

DP

And you said you have some employees?

 

00;05;02;21 - 00;05;13;16

MT

I do have employees. They're basically consultants. So basically I have a expediter. I have a drafts person. I have also my consultants, such as structural engineer, mechanical engineers.

 

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;21;08

DP

That's interesting. So you have an expediter that you guys use. And is that to make the process working with the city a little easier?

 

00;05;21;11 - 00;05;33;17

MT

It really does make it easier because as a person with a small firm, your hands are in everything. So to have somebody to be on the outside, to be able to do that type of work is appreciative and helpful.

 

00;05;33;19 - 00;05;46;05

DP

That's really cool. I mean, just as an aside, I hadn't really thought about the need for an expediter in a firm like that, but that makes perfect sense. So let's dig in here and talk about the home. How did your office get the project?

 

00;05;46;07 - 00;06;08;01

MT

I received the project in regards to as a dear friend, where I'm on the New York City Landmark Committee for Bedford-Stuyvesant specifically, and Community Board three, and he was a good member, Fred Jones, rest in peace. He had a friend who was in need of architectural services, so he recommended me to the client, which is the richest family, about this project.

 

00;06;08;03 - 00;06;10;01

DP

So you didn't know the clients before you got the job?

 

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;18;04

MT

I didn't know the clients. It was a friend of a friend, and he just talked highly about me and said that you should work with me in regards to this project.

 

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;24;26

DP

So give us a little history about the location. And was I correct in stating that the unit is an end unit?

 

00;06;24;29 - 00;07;08;00

MT

It is. It's in the beautiful, original, historic district of Bedford-Stuyvesant, which is known as Stuyvesant Heights, and it was established as a landmark district in 1971. So this set of buildings, it's literally between Stuyvesant and Lewis on Bainbridge. There's about 14 series of the buildings, and it's at the end row and there are Spanish style Renaissance buildings. That was created by W.f. McCarthy, who was an architect back in 1919.

 

And the unique thing about these buildings is that it's the only buildings I've ever been in with it has two staircases inside where there's one in the back and one in the front. So I guess back in those days they would have the servants come through the back and then the owners come through the front.

 

00;07;08;03 - 00;07;10;14

DP

Roughly, what's the square footage of the project?

 

00;07;10;16 - 00;07;13;09

MT

It's about 1200 square feet.

 

00;07;13;11 - 00;07;17;05

DP

And what was the scope and the programmatic requirements from the owner?

 

00;07;17;07 - 00;10;08;12

MT

Well, the original scope and program was that it was in terrible need in regards to the existing structure, the parapet was buckling. So on the north facade as well as the south and west facades, it was just crumbling. They were scared that it was going to fall down in some way. So the whole idea was to fix the parapet and also to fix all of the step cracking within the facade.

 

But then as we went along, we started to think also, it was a beautiful building of brick in the front. And the original status was that it had stucco on the very rear portion. Once we started to do the renovation was like, you know, we don't really need the stucco. It really looks beautiful with the brick itself. So we started to expose all the stucco, and by exposing all the stucco, we wound up finding out that this particular building, it wasn't brick behind it, it was actually wood.

 

So that therefore became more of an extensive project in which it wasn't just the renovation of the exterior facade, it was now a whole new addition and also an entire new rebuild. So we found out the history, and that was the nice thing about it. We really had to go back in the history of it. This is where the assistance of the expediter really came into play, because basically we found out that back in 1956, the building itself had a permit to actually do a addition because all of these beautiful houses.

 

What makes them so special in this neighborhood, too, is that they have their own private driveway, which many people don't have in that area. And also they have a garage. But then also on the second floor of each of these houses, they have a beautiful sunroom with a balcony. The person who owned the property at 102 Bainbridge, he basically wanted to make an addition.

 

So he eliminated that balcony and extended the whole square footage of the building so it can be enclosed. When we removed the stucco, we found out that instead of it masonry, he had it wood. So that was back in 1956. So we had to go back all the way to the building department to find out what the original drawings were, which we found out which were these beautiful blueprint drawings that you don't see anymore.

 

And it said that year they were legally supposed to have an addition, but it was supposed to be made out of brick, not wood. So that's where the whole expedition kind of came in. I had to go back to New York City building department, as well as the landmarks, because everyone was like shocked that it was wood versus masonry.

 

And we basically had to do a whole reconstruction. And that's where I guess the product of Glen-Gery came into play, because what happened to you is that on the back of the facade, all the bricks in the building weren't the same. The bricks in the front of the building were made out of Beldon, and it was a different type of color scheme.

 

But then when we removed the stucco in the back, it was a beautiful match with the Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert Plantation Middle Plantation, 52DD. It was a perfect match to it. Again, we had to go back to landmarks to make sure that they were approve of that brick to match what was in the rear facade that was being used.

 

00;10;08;15 - 00;10;17;12

DP

So what's interesting about the photographs that you sent is that the building looks as though some of these walls were completely taken down.

 

00;10;17;18 - 00;10;59;01

MT

It was because due to the fact it was stucco and I'm an architect that's very conscious about the environment. And stucco is something I concrete and it adds to the carbon footprint. So the whole idea was that this project specifically was to eliminate that process in really being more progressive and more enhancing to the environment. So that's why we didn't use stucco.

 

We wanted to just expose the beautiful masonry itself. And therefore, by eliminating the stucco, we saw the building was in need of much deeper repair than we expected. That was the thing, because in 1956 you figured that the contractors would be honest and they would do what they were supposed to do. But he wasn’t. And therefore that made this more of an adventure to get it right.

 

00;10;59;03 - 00;11;05;27

DP

So I would imagine there are a number of other buildings on that block that were also made of wood, that the interior wall construction. Is that correct?

 

00;11;06;00 - 00;11;44;10

MT

I don't know. That's the whole thing. What happened is, what makes this special is that this is the only house that has the addition. That's it. Everybody else has the sunroom. So this once in particular you thought that you would put it in masonry, but it's in it makes sense. First landmarks had to come and see it.

 

They were, like, shocked. Then I received the structural engineer, which was SOMA Engineering Firm, which is a great engineering firm. They came, they were shocked. The construction company that we work with, Naim Construction, all of us was basically shocked that this was behind the stucco because it looked like everything was fine. But when exposed, that's when we all gathered together as a team to like how we can resolve this.

 

00;11;44;16 - 00;11;52;22

DP

Interesting. Let's back up and talk a little bit about the plan of the building. I would assume it's just a large rectangle, two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;52;24 - 00;11;54;23

MT

Exactly. It was a two storey rectangle.

 

00;11;55;00 - 00;11;59;29

DP

And had you been contracted to design the interiors as well?

 

00;12;00;04 - 00;12;20;18

MT

I have for later date because what happens is based on the fact that now the photographs that you have here show of what it was existing. We went back to the premise of what it was back in 1919 when the solarium had these beautiful corner windows. So the design now is encompassing back the original style of that format.

 

00;12;20;20 - 00;12;25;05

DP

So you had to work with the city. How long did that process take?

 

00;12;25;08 - 00;12;53;21

MT

This is how it began. The project began in May 2020, during the pandemic. Then we actually had approval to start construction in April of 2021. Then all of these items, open issues about the facade not being what it was, and reconstruction, we basically spent about two years after that, and it was completed around October 20, 23. So it was back and forth with New York Landmarks as well as New York City Building Department.

 

00;12;53;27 - 00;12;55;09

DP

And the client had somewhere to live.

 

00;12;55;16 - 00;13;08;12

MT

He lived on the first floor. So the top floor. It was a blessing that he was able to live on the first floor while all this construction was going on. And in the top floor, basically, he had tenants, but then they moved out. When this major construction of us doing the rebuild.

 

00;13;08;15 - 00;13;09;07

DP

A lot of noise.

 

00;13;09;13 - 00;13;11;04

MT

It was a lot of noise.

 

00;13;11;04 - 00;13;11;23

DP

Very dusty.

 

00;13;11;24 - 00;13;15;00

MT

But it was fun.

 

00;13;15;02 - 00;13;24;10

DP

That's great. I'm interested as an architect about the drawings that you created in the very beginning. Did you work in 3D or just 2D?

 

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;33;28

MT

I worked in 2D, but then afterwards, when we started to look at what this condition that was taking place in the rear, I started looking at it in 3D and how it would be.

 

00;13;34;05 - 00;13;38;05

DP

And did you have to present drawings to a historic commission?

 

00;13;38;07 - 00;13;47;14

MT

Yes, we present it to Brian Blazak, is one of the senior preservationists on in New York City Landmarks. We had to show the drawings of what we planned to do.

 

00;13;47;16 - 00;13;48;26

DP

Exterior elevations?

 

00;13;49;03 - 00;13;50;24

MT

Yeah, exterior elevations.

 

00;13;50;26 - 00;13;58;25

DP

So again, backing up a little bit, you removed the stucco on one facade and replaced masonry on another. Is that correct?

 

00;13;58;28 - 00;14;25;03

MT

It's on the same facade. What happens is, is that the entire facade was placed in stucco. But then when we looked at the south elevation, so the windows were there, but it was infilled with wood. And that's what was shocking to everybody because basically it was really dilapidated and it also kind of made sense for the owner later on because he said his tenants always felt cold in that part of the room.

 

And it made sense because it was the wood and that masonry, there was no insulation whatsoever.

 

00;14;25;06 - 00;14;30;17

DP

So tell us a little bit about the new wall system that you guys had to create because of that condition.

 

00;14;30;19 - 00;15;17;03

MT

So the new wall system was still going back to what was historically done in regards to the rear facade was made out of three widths of brick, which basically is like three layers. And what we had to do is that we had to abide by what the actual, once we removed the stucco, what the actual pattern was, because it was a common bond, because as I stated in the beginning, the pattern in the front of the house was completely different than the pattern in the back of the house.

 

So once we established that, then we wanted to really make it structurally sound and we incorporated steel within the wall. So basically you have the three whiffs of brick on the outside, then you have the steel. It was stainless steel that made sure it was resource sustainably. And then we have our insulation and then our finishes in the inside.

 

00;15;17;06 - 00;15;26;25

DP

So the project sounds really interesting. Did you guys learn anything new about construction technologies or about building typologies in working on this project?

 

00;15;26;27 - 00;15;58;06

MT

Yes, the use of materials because again, was very selective about which materials we're going to use because since this building was already historically landmarked since 1919, we wanted to make sure that it lasts for another 100 years. So was very selective on who the steel came from, where the insulation came from, where the bricks came from. All of these were really mindful things and I think moving forward with other projects, I continue doing that, making sure that they are friendly to the planet as well as to the people who are going to live and utilize the buildings.

 

00;15;58;08 - 00;16;04;18

DP

So did the client bring the general contractor to the project or did you interview a number of contractors?

 

00;16;04;20 - 00;16;10;09

MT

We did interview a number of contractors, but then the client himself selected Naim Construction for it.

 

00;16;10;12 - 00;16;15;19

DP

And clearly there's a lot of masonry work. Did you have any challenges finding a good mason?

 

00;16;15;21 - 00;16;45;27

MT

Oh no. He has very excellent masons and they were very accommodating because we had to go back and forth with New York City Landmarks when we were selecting the bricks where we had to actually do a sample of the wall where the wood infill was of how the brick was going to look. So one of his masons, George, was really who's one of the oldest ones there.

 

It has most experience. He was very patient. We went on the scaffolding and it was a really cold day, but we did the whole mock up and it came out beautiful. And therefore Landmark said, Yes, go with it.

 

00;16;45;29 - 00;16;49;16

DP

So you did the mock up and the city came out and took a look at it?

 

00;16;49;19 - 00;16;56;05

MT

No, we took photographs and then afterwards they were like, because it was cold.

 

00;16;56;07 - 00;17;05;24

DP

So the city doesn't like to go out on cold days? I think we’ll leave that in there. That's good. So I assume the client's living there now?

 

00;17;06;02 - 00;17;09;17

MT

He is. He's living in the bottom floor still, but he's happy with the work.

 

00;17;09;20 - 00;17;12;25

DP

So is it complete? And he has a tenant on the second floor?

 

00;17;13;00 - 00;17;22;21

MT

He doesn't have a tenant on the second floor. And it's not quite complete yet because now we're just waiting for the historical windows to come in. So that is the last crème de la crème.

 

00;17;22;23 - 00;17;24;27

DP

And who is the manufacturer of the windows?

 

00;17;25;03 - 00;17;36;10

MT

It is Norwood Manufacturers, a Canadian company. And again, it was very selective on them because the way they use and harvest wood in order to make the windows, we're really mindful about that.

 

00;17;36;17 - 00;17;39;23

DP

Interesting. Are they double glazed? Triple glazed?

 

00;17;39;25 - 00;17;49;03

MT

They're triple glazed, low e glass index and they're quite beautiful. They're the original to what was there before of the windows? So they're replicating those.

 

00;17;49;05 - 00;17;57;00

DP

So I'm curious in terms of color, you were able to find a brick that you were happy with. You said that matched on the exterior.

 

00;17;57;02 - 00;18;12;16

MT

The contractor has suggested he was like, this will be a perfect break. I did research and was a Glen-Gery Kushwaha Calvert 52 DD Middle Plantation. That was the one that was selected. And when we put it in place, it was perfect to what was there from 1919.

 

00;18;12;22 - 00;18;15;27

DP

So do all these row homes, they all must look the same?

 

00;18;16;02 - 00;18;45;16

MT

They basically all look the same. And the other fascinating thing too, with the project, when we were doing the demo for the wood infield, all the bricks, I learned this like recently from my practice that the bricks that we were removing, that were there all had the names of the brick companies on there. And you don't see that anymore in which they were actually etched into the brick.

 

I was like, Wow, It's like, fascinating. So it was like an archeological project in the same way of doing something better for the building for another hundred years.

 

00;18;45;19 - 00;18;52;24

DP

So when you guys put these new windows in, what about the color? Can you do whatever color you want or the colors have to match the other homes.

 

00;18;52;26 - 00;18;57;13

MT

The colors have to match. It is going to be made out of wood, but they're going to be of a white finish.

 

00;18;57;16 - 00;19;00;10

DP

And they have to be traditional in style to match the others.

 

00;19;00;16 - 00;19;01;06

MT

Exactly.

 

00;19;01;06 - 00;19;11;17

DP

Interesting. So, Michelle, you've been an architect for some time. Based on what you know today about being an architect, you have any words of advice for your younger self or maybe architects coming up in the ranks?

 

00;19;11;19 - 00;19;41;21

MT

I would say don't quit on yourself. That's for me personally, as a woman and a woman of color in this industry, to always just believe in yourself, that what you find really interesting and powerful within yourself will just keep working at it and you'll get recognition. But it's not really about the recognition. I've always known I wanted to be an architect.

 

I feel architecture is like a stewardship. You are helping other people to obtain their desires and dreams and designs, but then also, too, helping the planet.

 

00;19;41;24 - 00;19;49;23

DP

So, Michelle, it's been great to have you here today. Thank you so much for your time. Where could people go to learn more M.Todd Architect and yourself?

 

00;19;49;26 - 00;19;56;06

MT

You can find me on my website at  MToddArchitects.com and then also I'm on LinkedIn.

 

00;19;56;08 - 00;19;58;10

DP

Well, thank you very much. It has been great to have you.

 

00;19;58;17 - 00;20;00;24

MT

Thank you so much. Appreciate the opportunity.

TRANSCRIPT

00;00;05;27 - 00;00;29;07

SN

It's a very faithful rendition of what's known as Collegiate Gothic. It is very much in step with this long-established tradition of higher education that goes back to the church in Europe and then institutions like Oxford and Cambridge. And then it comes over to the states with institutions like Harvard and Yale, who are doing very much the same thing. They were trying to identify with this established tradition.

 

00;00;29;14 - 00;02;24;07

DP

This is my guest, Steve Knight. I'll share more about him shortly. In this episode from the Design Vault we’ll highlight Steve's project, the Nicholas S. Zeppos College Building at Vanderbilt University.

The Nicholas S. Zeppos College Building is several thousand square feet, five stories with a large tower at one end. The building is red brick and limestone, designed in the collegiate Gothic style. The building has a slate roof, slate dormers, large brick chimney masses, limestone window frames and quoins, multi-story window bays, gable forms across the facade, and limestone gothic arches, a tall square picturesque tower with chamfered corners, polychromatic brickwork and limestone cap rounds out the building at one end.

Hi, I'm Doug Pat and this is Design Vault. Today we're talking to Steve Knight, who led the team designing the Nicholas S. Zeppos College at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. Steve is a member of the American Institute of Architects and he's a principal with David M. Schwarz Architects. He studied at North Carolina State University, where he received his Master of Architecture. That same year, he joined David M. Schwarz Architects. Steve primarily focuses on his firm's performing arts venue projects. He served as project architect for the design of the Schermerhorn Symphony Center, the Palladium at the Center for Performing Arts, the Gilliard center, and most recently, an 8000-seat amphitheater in Huntsville, Alabama.

Among other projects, he's currently leading the offices team on the design of the multiphase residential college project at Vanderbilt University. The Nicholas S. Zeppos College Building is one of four residential buildings for DMS at Vanderbilt University. So let's get into the details. Welcome, Steve.

 

00;02;24;14 - 00;02;25;28

SN

Greetings, Doug. Good to be here.

 

00;02;26;08 - 00;02;30;09

DP

So, tell us a little bit about your firm, David M. Schwarz Architects.

 

00;02;30;20 - 00;03;04;27

SN

Sure. We're a mid-sized design architect and planning firm. We're based in Washington, D.C. We have about 35 design architects on staff. We were started in the mid-seventies by our founder, David M. Schwarz.

It was a really interesting time to start an architecture firm in Washington and in the U.S., really. And there are two pivotal things that happened in the late seventies. The first was the district passed one of the most stringent historic preservation ordinances in the country. And on the heels of that, the federal government enacted tax credits for historic preservation.

 

00;03;04;27 - 00;03;06;22

DP

Really? How fortuitous.

 

00;03;07;00 - 00;03;43;12

SN

So, we found ourselves, the firm at the time - this is before my time there, obviously - but we found ourselves working in newly established historic districts on landmark designated buildings, and it really informed how we think about architecture that architecture is - it's very important that it responds very carefully to the context around it. Each building is part of a larger ecosystem that creates meaningful places, beautiful places to walk, live, places that are memorable. That really is a kind of a train of thought that I think we've carried through all of our work to this day.

 

00;03;43;20 - 00;03;54;16

DP

So, the greater majority of the work that you guys do is traditional. Has that been challenging in any era over the course of the last 50 years when people were doing more modern architecture and...

 

00;03;54;26 - 00;04;42;08

SN

Well, it certainly is today. We never sought out to be traditional architects in that sense. One project begets another, and like many architects, we sort of get known for our buildings and what we do. And I think in terms of that stylistic leaning, if you will, it's a bit controversial these days, I think, particularly within the architecture design community, where I think there is a tendency amongst the majority to want to look forward in sort of the past is the past, let's look to the present and let's look to the future.

I think for us, architecture is primarily about communication. And what we mean by that is that buildings in their edifices say something to people and it's really important that they engage with the communities that they serve.

 

00;04;42;20 - 00;04;58;02

DP

Yeah, it's interesting talking about classicism, traditional architecture, having a kind of language and speaking to the community in a certain way. Right. It's kind of understandable language for many people. You see, especially in Washington.

 

00;04;58;10 - 00;05;02;25

SN

It is, it's a very legible language of building and design. Absolutely.

 

00;05;03;03 - 00;05;05;14

DP

So, tell us about your role in the office.

 

00;05;05;27 - 00;05;33;12

SN

I'm a principal in the firm. I've been with the firm since I finished graduate school back in the late nineties. I started out as an intern and then, as you could imagine, sort of worked my way up through architect staff and project architect and then project manager. I spend most of my time communicating and working with teams of people in the office. Design, for us, is a very collaborative sport. The office is a very collaborative environment.

 

00;05;33;12 - 00;05;33;28

DP

That's great.

 

00;05;34;05 - 00;05;59;17

SN

I think one of the most interesting things to me is the founder, David Schwarz. I have rarely ever seen David pick up a pencil and draw something, but he commands a great deal of influence and quality oversight of the firm's body of work, largely through talking to people, getting to know each of us. And I in turn try to do the same.

 

00;05;59;25 - 00;06;02;08

DP

Well, you've been there a long time. It sounds like you've got a great boss.

 

00;06;02;14 - 00;06;07;06

SN

He is a great boss. We got a great group of people around me. I consider myself very lucky.

 

00;06;07;12 - 00;06;20;27

DP

Oh, that's really cool, because, I mean, architecture is challenging enough, right? It's a challenging profession. Very difficult business. We're all architects, right? So, we're all a little self-absorbed. To find somebody you enjoy working with and for is wonderful.

 

00;06;21;02 - 00;06;22;01

SN

Yeah, it's very important.

 

00;06;22;04 - 00;06;34;02

DP

Yeah, that's great. So, let's dig in here. Let's talk about the residential college project at Vanderbilt and specifically the Nicholas S. Zeppos College building. How did your office get this project?

 

00;06;34;15 - 00;07;25;15

SN

Well, it goes back to a master plan study that we did. Oh, at least 15 years ago, we conducted a study. The university was interested in reorganizing student life on campus, and they struck on the idea of the residential college model, which grows out of a very well-established tradition that starts on the other side of the pond by places like Oxford and Cambridge.

And then it comes to the States in the early 20th century with the Ivy League institutions like Yale and Harvard and Princeton. And what they really liked about it was this notion of breaking down the larger student community into smaller communities of a few hundred people. So, we developed this master plan that sort of provided strategic opportunity areas on where these colleges could be located.

 

00;07;25;21 - 00;07;28;28

DP

So, they came to you with this idea. There would be four colleges.

 

00;07;29;06 - 00;07;38;02

SN

They came to us with a very broad idea of, “we want to rethink student life on campus,” and through conversation, the residential college model came out of that.

 

00;07;38;02 - 00;07;38;21

DP

Wonderful.

 

00;07;38;23 - 00;08;00;27

SN

And then opportunity areas across campus. We identified sites. They then constructed what they called the freshman campus, the freshman college, if you will. That's where all first-year students go to live and there was a bit of a lull. And then we sort of came back with this more defined project of the four colleges, of which Nicholas S. Zeppos is number two.

 

00;08;01;08 - 00;08;07;11

DP

So, had you been hired at that point or were you working against other architects to try to get the project?

 

00;08;07;16 - 00;08;17;01

SN

No, we had been hired at that point. We had done other work in Nashville, most notably the Schermerhorn Symphony Center, the Nashville Symphony's concert hall.

 

00;08;17;01 - 00;08;18;02

DP

So, they knew of you.

 

00;08;18;03 - 00;08;22;19

SN

So, they knew of us. And we just developed good, strong relationships in the community.

 

00;08;22;20 - 00;08;31;27

DP

That's great. It's a great way to get jobs. So, can you tell me a little bit about the history of the place, the town, the neighborhood, the buildings around the site?

 

00;08;32;04 - 00;08;52;00

SN

Sure. In Nashville, it's a fascinating city with great heritage and history. One of its monikers is the Athens of the South. They have a full-scale replica of the Parthenon on Centennial Park campus, which is actually just across the West End Boulevard from Vanderbilt.

 

00;08;52;02 - 00;08;55;07

DP

I'm sure I've seen photos of this and have forgotten. That's incredible.

 

00;08;55;17 - 00;08;59;15

SN

It. It really is. Every detail is fully, faithfully executed.

 

00;08;59;16 - 00;09;02;07

DP

I'd love to talk about that some time but go ahead.

 

00;09;02;17 - 00;10;17;15

SN

But that's not why it's called the Athens of the South. It's called the Athens of the south because of the number of institutions of higher learning that one finds there. So, you have Fisk, you have Vanderbilt, many institutions. And it just at a sort of a per capita level. It developed this sort of bookish, erudite culture. Another thing that helped reinforced it was there's a great deal of publishing that happens there, mostly religious, and musical publications.

So anyway, so it's the Athens of the South, so that's really neat. The Vanderbilt history is really interesting because it's basically it's founded as an outgrowth of the Civil War. The institution, it was basically viewed by its namesake who endowed the starting of the university as a kind of a healing moment between the North and the South.

Cornelius Vanderbilt. And he has a statue, obviously, in the heart of campus. The campus itself is - it's a really beautiful green garden-like setting. It does have the classification of being an arboretum because of the number of unique specimens of trees one finds there. The architecture is quite eclectic. Like most campuses, there's a kind of a historic heart of Victorian era buildings and some collegiate gothic buildings as well. And then it sort of evolves over time.

 

00;10;17;24 - 00;10;31;07

DP

So, you touched a little bit on what these college buildings are composed of. Could you give me a little bit more information about the programmatic requirements of each of the four buildings - or let's just stick to the Zeppos College building?

 

00;10;31;12 - 00;12;03;17

SN

Yes. So Zeppos houses 340 students. We typically say beds. It has 340 beds. So that's the lingo in that business, if you will. And it's viewed as a really holistic living environment for students. Not only are there places to sleep, but there are also places to study, places to gather. There are places to eat. There are even accommodations for some resident faculty. Each of the colleges, or at Zeppos, has a family - faculty member and their family has an apartment within the facility. And they help provide leadership and mentorship to the student community.

So, and all of those things are fully realized programmatically with dining facilities. There's a really great dining hall in Zeppos. There's a great room, as we call it, a large living room with wood paneling, courtyards. So there's nice quality, secure, defensible outdoor space for the students to use.

On each of the floors, it was a really interesting challenge because we're dealing with a lot, even within that reduced footprint of only 300 odd beds, it's still a lot of program, a lot of footprint to have to manage. So, to create a sense of place that's navigable and somewhat homelike and approachable and familiar, we did some interesting things within the student floors. There's a lot of articulation in the building massing, and we offset the double loaded corridors to create nodes and they tend to coincide with elevators and stairs so that we create places for students to naturally bump into each other.

 

00;12;04;00 - 00;12;16;08

DP

Well, I'm going to actually ask you about that in just a minute. So first, let's back up and talk a little bit about the site and the topographic features, if there are any. Or are they just completely flat?

 

00;12;16;19 - 00;13;04;06

SN

No, there is a bit of grade change from - I have to get my compass directions right - from east to west. I think what's most interesting about the site is it has kind of a two-sided nature to it. So, on one side is West End Avenue, which is a major east west thoroughfare that connects with downtown Nashville. It's sort of the public face of Vanderbilt. So, the colleges were a real opportunity to sort of enhance the university's image to the outward community.

And then on the other side, the opposite side is a very opposite kind of condition. It's a series of very low scale residential structures that house the Greek community. So, several houses, each one is a fraternity or a sorority. So, we had to respond to two very different contexts on each side of the building.

 

00;13;04;17 - 00;13;08;22

DP

So, tell us a little bit more about the building plan. You started getting into that.

 

00;13;08;29 - 00;13;29;25

SN

Sure. So Zeppos is a figure eight with two courtyards. What makes the figure eight is what we call a double loaded bar, if you will, on the upper student room floors. You have rooms on both sides of a corridor. And again, there's interesting offsets in those corridors and bars to help break down the massing.

 

00;13;30;04 - 00;13;32;25

DP

Does that create these large gables?

 

00;13;33;00 - 00;13;48;03

SN

Yes. And then and then some of the bars, we actually punch through to create Gables to help break down and articulate the massing of the building. It's basically a city block. So, all of those moves are really important to help make the building very approachable and friendly.

 

00;13;48;11 - 00;13;51;14

DP

Are all four college buildings a city block.

 

00;13;51;26 - 00;14;14;09

SN

About. They each layout a little differently from one another. The one immediately to the east of this one, Rothschild College. That one has three courtyards. Due to the particulars of that particular site and obviously what makes the Zeppos college most special amongst the four of them is this 300-foot tower at one end of it.

 

00;14;14;17 - 00;14;20;03

DP

So that's a great segway. Tell us about the style of this building because it's stunning.

 

00;14;20;12 - 00;15;02;06

SN

It's a very faithful rendition of what's known as Collegiate Gothic. It was really very much a communication and really a marketing decision by the university in terms of we looked at lots of different vernaculars. What should these things look like? And the entire team ultimately arrived at Collegiate Gothic is the appropriate response. It is very much in step with this long-established tradition of higher education that goes back to the church in Europe and then institutions like Oxford and Cambridge, and then it comes over to the States with institutions like Harvard and Yale who are doing very much the same thing. They were trying to identify with this established tradition.

 

00;15;02;13 - 00;15;04;13

DP

Really? I mean, it makes perfect sense.

 

00;15;04;14 - 00;15;05;02

SN

Absolutely.

 

00;15;05;13 - 00;15;14;25

DP

So, were there any specific buildings that you can recall that you guys were looking at? The tower looks like it could have been pulled from the facade from a church in Europe. Right? I mean.

 

00;15;15;02 - 00;16;04;01

SN

Sure, we're very eclectic in our approach. We spend a lot of time looking at examples in books. We try to visit places in person, and that was a really important tool at the outset of this project is we actually took members of the client team on a little whirlwind tour of residential college examples around the country. Some examples that we looked to for the tower would be the Harkness Tower at Yale.

A slightly more atypical one that we did look at. It would be the Nebraska state Capitol and I think one feature that we quoted from that one is towards the top of the tower. As it starts to step in, you'll see what we call a little lantern, a little limestone lantern on each of the four corners. That's a common type feature in this style of architecture. When you're creating a tapered tall form like this, we thought it worked very well.

 

00;16;04;09 - 00;16;11;29

DP

And you chose brick for the majority of the material for these exterior facades? Tell me a little bit about that.

 

00;16;12;07 - 00;16;45;17

SN

Well, we always want our buildings to have a really rich palette of materials. And that's true of the interior and, of course, the exterior. So here the palette is a combination of brick, carved Indiana limestone, and then an accent stone, which is called Crab Orchard. It's actually a stone that's native to Tennessee. And we thought that was very appropriate to sort of weave in a local material that one finds in and around Nashville. The brick in particular is really interesting because we knew we didn't want a stark read of just one color.

 

00;16;45;19 - 00;16;48;08

DP

Right. Like if the building was all limestone.

 

00;16;48;08 - 00;17;09;26

SN

Like it was all limestone. And even within the brick itself, it's not just one brick, it's actually a blend of three bricks. And we did lots of mockup panels with the help of a very patient Mason, and a very patient local brick distributor who gave us about an acre of their brickyard to do all these different experiments.

 

00;17;09;27 - 00;17;10;16

DP

That's so cool.

 

00;17;10;16 - 00;17;46;22

SN

We tried different blends and we ultimately settled on a blend of three bricks for the college, and then we further augmented that with what we call decorative bond detailing. So, if you look closely at some of the details, you'll see brick that's fashioned into basket weave patterns, sawtooth patterns, what's known in England as diapering, which is creating a sort of a diamond checkerboard pattern. And we use different bricks for that as well. They tended to be iron spot bricks that are really beautiful because they catch and reflect light in different ways depending on how the sun is hitting them.

 

00;17;47;06 - 00;18;26;25

DP

Yeah, so it's interesting. We've got this polychrome going on, so you guys have the red brick and then I see these diamonds which are made from a different color brick, and then you're taking that one step further. You're backing off the changes in color perhaps, and you're changing the direction of these bricks and the patterns on the interiors.

I mean, it just takes so much time and thought to do everything you guys are doing on these facades. How much time did it take? Just doing like the design work? And who was doing that design work in the office? How were you doing these drawings and how are they being reviewed? I mean, there's a lot going on here.

 

00;18;27;02 - 00;19;17;26

SN

There's a lot there. I mean, the process is really key and it's a very layered process. You don't start out drawing detail. You start out with a parti and then you look at the plan and then you study the massing and then you get to a point and that's schematic design and that was probably about five months. And then we launch into design development.

We are refining the details and that was probably another six months of design development. And within both of those design phases, it's hand sketching, physical study models - we still love doing old fashioned models, just cutting out of cardboard and matte board - as well as two-dimensional drafting. And then, of course, actually three-dimensional modeling and digital modeling in the computer. That was a really key tool.

 

00;19;18;06 - 00;19;22;26

DP

With all these bricks and all those patterns. Must have been an unbelievable process.

 

00;19;22;26 - 00;19;45;28

SN

Yeah. And then it all has to be documented. It's a beautiful project. The standards were very high at the same time we did have a budget and doing cost take-offs at each of the milestone levels of completion - at schematic design and design development - were very important and they caused us to have to do some recalibrating and some adjusting to keep the thing on budget and on track.

 

00;19;46;09 - 00;19;52;23

DP

Yeah, I mean, you sit down with the clients and show them some of this stuff and I'm sure the first words out of their mouths is how much is this going to cost, right?

 

00;19;52;25 - 00;20;12;01

SN

Sure. It's interesting. In the earliest design packages, schematic design, you just can't draw all the detail. So, we actually put photos of collegiate gothic buildings in the drawings to help the contractors really get their head around, okay, this is really complex here. This is not your typical...

 

00;20;12;14 - 00;20;19;14

DP

And there had to have been a lot of handholding in the field too. I mean, a lot of the detail, like the variegated quoins, the quoining on the corners.

 

00;20;19;14 - 00;20;23;19

SN

Yeah. Every one of those stones is actually laid out in the design.

 

00;20;23;27 - 00;20;30;16

DP

All the dimensions, the materiality, the color. Like everything. Wow. So, there's a lot of details.

 

00;20;30;27 - 00;20;39;27

SN

Yes. I mean, it's a phone book level – for anybody who remembers what a phone book is – a phone book thickness level of drawing and documentation.

 

00;20;40;04 - 00;20;51;19

DP

Tell me a little bit about the limestone work, because, again, the level, the detail and the wonderful intricate detailing, I mean, you've got to draw and then you got to find somebody to make that.

 

00;20;51;28 - 00;21;24;16

SN

It's southern Indiana is limestone country. Indiana limestone. It's where the stone is quarried and it's where it is still fabricated. To this day, it is grand tradition. It goes back to the mid-1800s. It had its heyday in the early 20th century with, one just imagines, the proliferation of limestone buildings one finds in any great city in the U.S. and then it gradually tapered off from there after the war in particular. But there are still a few very dedicated fabricator firms that do the what they call the cutting.

 

00;21;24;23 - 00;21;30;24

DP

It had to have been hard to find somebody with so few people doing this kind of - this level of detail work.

 

00;21;31;07 - 00;21;44;12

SN

Well, there's one firm we've worked with on almost all of our projects. And they’re still - this is what they do. They are perfectly set up to do it, Bybee Limestone. We know them very well. We love them and they know us. And they love us too.

 

00;21;44;12 - 00;22;05;24

DP

Yeah, it's stunning. So back to Brick for a second. Did Brick solve any particular design challenges for the architecture for the client? I mean, you touched a little bit on the color, on the exterior and the feel of the architecture, right? We talked about the fact that you make this building all limestone. You got a problem. I mean, it's just a monolith.

 

00;22;06;06 - 00;22;38;17

SN

Yeah, well, it's a very warming material. It's very appropriate, in particular, the way it's used here for what is essentially a residential place. It's a very approachable, it's a very durable material, obviously. And sustainability is very important. We think one of the most important aspects of sustainability is building very consciously, using resources very consciously and very wisely. And in building something that will hopefully be around for a very long time. This building will be around for a very long time.

 

00;22;39;05 - 00;22;45;02

DP

That's for sure. Were there any unique construction details that you guys developed as you were working on this?

 

00;22;45;12 - 00;23;50;11

SN

Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, architecture is a very collaborative sport, and we didn't do this all ourselves. We had a very dedicated architect of record Hastings Architects out of Nashville. They were very faithful in working with us to realize all of the technical detailing, achieve what we're trying to achieve aesthetically, and then a really good contractor late in construction. They were very on top of things the whole way.

I'd say a couple of specifics: one of the things, the details that makes the colleges really fun and interesting are these ornamental chimneys that you find on the roof. And the contractor hit on a really interesting idea because in particular after the previous college where they did not do this, they elected to construct the chimneys on the ground, and then hoist them into place with the tower crane. That allowed them to advance construction on the roof without tying up a huge amount of roof area with scaffolding and preventing them from drying in the building. It was just a much easier erection process down on the ground.

 

00;23;50;21 - 00;23;53;09

DP

You just have boiler flues going through these things. I mean.

 

00;23;53;16 - 00;23;58;06

SN

They're vents, They're flues. Yeah. So, they do they do serve a functional purpose as well.

 

00;23;58;07 - 00;24;05;00

DP

I think that's a wonderful touch. You wouldn't expect to see these chimney masses on a building like that. They really kind of set it apart.

 

00;24;05;07 - 00;24;46;07

SN

One other quick detail is it sort of goes back to the documentation. After we get even through CDs and in construction, there's then what's known as the submittal process where shop drawings are submitted and the contractor hired one firm, an engineering firm that was sort of the central documentation point for all of the masonry. Typically, you would have separate drawings for brick and limestone, and in this case, the Crab Orchard. So, we had one firm that was weaving all of that together. It really helped the coordination and adjustments that had to be made to some of the technical details because it was all in one place. You know, it's also this is modern cavity wall construction.

 

00;24;47;13 - 00;24;49;03

DP

That’s a good point. Okay. So how does that work?

 

00;24;49;11 - 00;25;23;18

SN

So, there's a concrete superstructure between the slabs. We span metal studs. And then much like any building, we pack insulation between the studs. There's exterior rated gyp. board and then a barrier coating that goes over that and then some additional installation in some cases to get the proper R-values. And then the brick is hung off the building. It's built the way modern brick buildings are built today. Cause it really had to be, because that's just how we build - that's how people know how to build. Yet, we're trying to achieve something quite different in the aesthetics.

 

00;25;23;25 - 00;25;26;07

DP

Did you guys use any brick on the interior?

 

00;25;26;18 - 00;26;01;09

SN

So far, no. But there's one last college that's under construction and we were using brick in the dining hall of that one. It'll be a thin brick that's applied to the inside wall surface, but it's been a fun opportunity and a challenge at the same time across four colleges, because we want them all to fit within this collegiate gothic vernacular.

But yet, we want each one to be slightly different, so it's identifiable and to the community that lives there in a larger community as well. So, finding subtle, fun, different things we could do from one to the next was always one of the most interesting and challenging parts of this.

 

00;26;01;21 - 00;26;10;17

DP

I was thinking about while we were talking about the general contractor that you worked with. Was it a bid job or did you guys go immediately to the GC?

 

00;26;10;27 - 00;26;31;26

SN

They were a construction manager. So, they were brought on board early in the process during design. We like working that way because we like getting the technical expertise and input during design. We can constantly be moving forward as opposed to taking three steps back if a contractor comes on much later and says, “I wouldn't have done it that way.”

 

00;26;32;01 - 00;26;37;09

DP

What I was getting at was whether or not you had any challenges finding a really good mason.

 

00;26;37;19 - 00;26;48;06

SN

You know, it's interesting. It's lots of masons. There was a mason subcontractor, but they in turn subcontracted. It would be interesting to ask them. I know it was a challenge.

 

00;26;48;08 - 00;26;50;21

DP

Finding the right people to do the work.

 

00;26;50;21 - 00;26;51;17

SN

The right skill set.

 

00;26;51;23 - 00;26;57;11

DP

It's always a challenge for every architect. So, Steve, what was your favorite part of the project?

 

00;26;57;22 - 00;27;36;01

SN

I really enjoy the design development phase. We're really getting in and figuring out details. It's a level of problem solving that I find really interesting because in the earlier design phase, we sort of setting up the game board and making the major moves, but then to go in and make each one actually work and really figure stuff out and all the tools that we used to do that and it's a really interesting variety of tools, whether it's a half inch scale model of a corbel that's sitting on my desk or a sketch or the digital model, I just find problem solving at that level to be really, really fully engaging and satisfying.

 

00;27;36;10 - 00;28;02;24

DP

It's great. It takes a long time for most people to find what they really love about the profession, right? I mean, some people end up doing everything they've small offices, some people end up doing one thing one or two things inside of an office. It's a challenging business. It's a challenging profession. I think it's really nice that you're as happy as you are doing what you're doing and as good as you are at it. That's wonderful.

 

00;28;03;02 - 00;28;24;05

SN

I think one of the other interesting things, I use the word ownership a lot with the teams in the office and in design development. It's a really great opportunity to give individual young designers pieces of the building to figure out and design. When it's all done, they can come with me to the site and they can look at that point and yeah, I did that. That's really cool.

 

00;28;24;05 - 00;28;30;16

DP

Oh, that's great. So, Steve Knight, it was great to have you here. Where do people go to find you and your firm?

 

00;28;30;20 - 00;28;41;29

SN

Go to our web site www.dmsas.com. And if you're in Washington DC, come by and pay us a visit. 1707 L Street

 

00;28;43;00 - 00;28;47;09

DP

You get to meet some of our listeners. That's wonderful. Well, thank you very much, Steve Knight.

 

00;28;48;00 - 00;28;49;12

SN

Thank you, Doug. It's been a pleasure.